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ghost_town_huntress
02-08-2004, 11:38 AM
I guess I'll be the one to start a thread for Getting There! During last year's Ghost Town Rally in Ely, NV, one of the places we visited was the Belmont Mill. The mill in itself was an awesome sight (I'd never seen anything so intact), but then we decided to drive to the mine above Belmont Mill, which still has tram cables attached to the mill. The road up to the minesite was almost more fun than the minesite itself, though the minesite is definitely worth the drive. The entire road all the way up was barely wide enough for one vehicle (four wheel drive most definitely required, by the way), but at one point we came across a couple of trucks on their way back down, so we had to compromise and figure out who would pull sideways onto the hill to let who pass. We were the ones that ended up pulling up onto the hill to let the other people pass; I got out of the Jeep because it was so steep, it scared me. I thought for sure the Jeep would roll. At least I got a good picture. Further up the road, we came across a spot in the road where our mirror was scraping against a cliff face and on the other side of the Jeep the tires were almost hanging off the cliff, and there happened to be a huge rock right under the tire closer to the cliff face that our mirror was scraping so driving over that rock made the Jeep lean really far toward the steep fall underneath us; that was such an adrenaline rush. I also got out at that point and took pictures. It was really quite entertaining watching the look on my husband's face driving over that; he was scared to death! Anyway, I am attaching three pictures of that drive to this post (ok, two of the drive and one of a building at the top). Hope you guys enjoy the pics!

Rachel in Utah ghost_town_huntress@yahoo.com

ghost_town_huntress
02-08-2004, 11:40 AM
And I forgot to mention this Jeep was a rental. Needless to say we won't be renting from this certain company again; the Jeep was so scratched up and dented from this road above Belmont Mill; Oops!!

Rachel in Utah

I guess I'll be the one to start a thread for Getting There! During last year's Ghost Town Rally in Ely, NV, one of the places we visited was the Belmont Mill. The mill in itself was an awesome sight (I'd never seen anything so intact), but then we decided to drive to the mine above Belmont Mill, which still has tram cables attached to the mill. The road up to the minesite was almost more fun than the minesite itself, though the minesite is definitely worth the drive. The entire road all the way up was barely wide enough for one vehicle (four wheel drive most definitely required, by the way), but at one point we came across a couple of trucks on their way back down, so we had to compromise and figure out who would pull sideways onto the hill to let who pass. We were the ones that ended up pulling up onto the hill to let the other people pass; I got out of the Jeep because it was so steep, it scared me. I thought for sure the Jeep would roll. At least I got a good picture. Further up the road, we came across a spot in the road where our mirror was scraping against a cliff face and on the other side of the Jeep the tires were almost hanging off the cliff, and there happened to be a huge rock right under the tire closer to the cliff face that our mirror was scraping so driving over that rock made the Jeep lean really far toward the steep fall underneath us; that was such an adrenaline rush. I also got out at that point and took pictures. It was really quite entertaining watching the look on my husband's face driving over that; he was scared to death! Anyway, I am attaching three pictures of that drive to this post (ok, two of the drive and one of a building at the top). Hope you guys enjoy the pics!

Rachel in Utah ghost_town_huntress@yahoo.com

Ghosttowns.com
02-08-2004, 11:58 PM
Rental!
Yes - thats the way to do it:)

BradM
08-15-2004, 05:09 PM
I guess I'll be the one to start a thread for Getting There! During last year's Ghost Town Rally in Ely, NV, one of the places we visited was the Belmont Mill. The mill in itself was an awesome sight (I'd never seen anything so intact), but then we decided to drive to the mine above Belmont Mill, which still has tram cables attached to the mill. The road up to the minesite was almost more fun than the minesite itself, though the minesite is definitely worth the drive. The entire road all the way up was barely wide enough for one vehicle (four wheel drive most definitely required, by the way),

<snipped for space>



About eight years ago, we took our Hummers up that road all the way to the end at the buildings. At that time, the road was overgrown with several four inch diameter spruce trees which we sawed off to get the road open again.

Rockcrusher
08-16-2004, 05:23 PM
About eight years ago, we took our Hummers up that road all the way to the end at the buildings. At that time, the road was overgrown with several four inch diameter spruce trees which we sawed off to get the road open again.
You cut down live trees just so you could go play in your Hummer? Way to go!

Act of destruction and vandalism like yours are the major reasons responsible off-roader are losing trails.

BradM
08-18-2004, 03:38 PM
You cut down live trees just so you could go play in your Hummer? Way to go!

Act of destruction and vandalism like yours are the major reasons responsible off-roader are losing trails.

"Act of destruction and vandalism like yours"



Really? And what's the imperative that would dictate such?
That is a bonafide road, and clearing it is not an act of vandalism. It would help if the discussion in question didn't start with a flawed premise from a person who knows precious little of what he presumes to discuss.

SuzukiTom
08-19-2004, 06:13 PM
You cut down live trees just so you could go play in your Hummer? Way to go!

Act of destruction and vandalism like yours are the major reasons responsible off-roader are losing trails.

I have to agree with BradM on this one, the 4x4 club I belonged to in Tucson did brush clearing runs several times a year in order to keep little used (but interesting) trails open. If you allow a trail to close itself by letting it to be grown over, you will lose its use permenanetly. We already are losing trails at a phenomenal rate to other closures. Not everybody can or is willing to hike miles to see historical sites.



Tom H.

one_bad_rover
09-03-2004, 05:49 AM
Hey all, Im all for clearing roads, and like it was said, if you dont clear the roads you will lose them. Dont be afraid to get out there and drive around. The worst perpetrators are the ATV drivers that arent really looking for anything, they just want to go really fast somewhere. As to the first story of the road, I think that is the irresponsible story. When you are out and about you need to know your limits and know when to walk the trail. Dont rely on luck, it will give out on you. Thats when trails get closed and mines get shut is when someone gets hurt. Additionally I say this because I rolled a truck 4 years ago, destroyed my wrist and broke my back in two places. It took close to 4 hours to get to the closest clinic and then another 2 hours to get lifeflight out for extraction. Not trying to rain on your parade but when you talk about you tires riding the edge of the road it just shows a lack of respect for danger out there. If you had rolled you could have killed or crippled yourself and/or your husband.

utah-ghost
07-24-2005, 04:25 PM
The mine above Belmont Mill is the Vulture Mine.

High Desert Drifter
07-25-2005, 07:19 PM
Wow, I see points to both sides of this argument.. By the way, ghost town huntress has been around for a while, I'm sure she knows her limits. Rockcrusher comes from an area where land is constantly being closed to the public, some of which is due to abuse so I certainly see his point. And not all ATV owners are out for some thrill seeking trail destruction. I happen to be the proud owner of a 4x4 ATV that I use to access sites unreachable by my 4x4 toyota tacoma TRD.

I guess that is what makes this forum go round ! OPINIONS!

By the way.. your rover is pretty sweet.

Fuzzman
09-14-2005, 02:32 PM
I also have to disagree about ATV riders screwing things up for everyone. I happen to have a family of Polaris Sportsman ATV's, all are utility machines, 4X4 and used only for exploring. You won't find anyone in my family do the flying over the hill at 900 miles an hour not looking where they're going or tearing up the hillsides. There are basically two completely different types of ATV riders. The ones you dispise that are **** bent to make their own imprint regardless of the impact on mother earth and those of us who respect what we have and want to keep it open so everyone has the opportunity to visit a piece of history.
DON"T lump me in with apparently a grouping you know little about.
I belong to the INTREPID Group of ATV'ers...and you won't find a better bunch of guys who explore the old west. Thanks to guys like Brad, the rest of the ghost towners still have places to they can get to. Thanks Brad. I appreciate everything you do to keep the roads, trails and byways open.

GaryB
09-15-2005, 06:18 PM
The only problem with clear cutting a road in Nevada is if it's on BLM or Forestry land, you're creating more issues than the trees growing in the road. I'm sure Bob can add some facts on his knowledge, but last time I heard of anyone cutting down trees to clear a road without the BLM's permission; they were heavily fined. The BLM and the Forestry service can shut down the road to all traffic for as long as they like too all because someone took it upon themselves to help out everyone else. The Forestry service also sees it as intentional destruction if you cut down anything growing on their land. That includes driving off the designated trails and roads.


Then again, folks taking their over sized behemoths up "Jeep" roads doesn't make sense either.

BradM
09-15-2005, 08:05 PM
The only problem with clear cutting a road in Nevada is if it's on BLM or Forestry land, you're creating more issues than the trees growing in the road. I'm sure Bob can add some facts on his knowledge, but last time I heard of anyone cutting down trees to clear a road without the BLM's permission; they were heavily fined. The BLM and the Forestry service can shut down the road to all traffic for as long as they like too all because someone took it upon themselves to help out everyone else. The Forestry service also sees it as intentional destruction if you cut down anything growing on their land. That includes driving off the designated trails and roads.
Then again, folks taking their over sized behemoths up "Jeep" roads doesn't make sense either.

This post reads like a case of the Arianna Huffington club wanting reasonable people to move to them rather than their own moving toward the mainstream. Furthermore, the premise is absurd, because what was written has nothing to do with reality. These government agencies epitomize the hypocrisy contained in this post by allowing xmas tree cutting, spiking and chaining on large areas of public land. In reality, things are what they are, not what an emotive GT.com post wishes them to be.

ghost_town_huntress
09-15-2005, 09:20 PM
I have to agree, it's all in HOW you ride. I've met a few ATVers that are very environment friendly and DON'T race around with no regard to what's around them. It's all in how it's done and how courteous you are.

Rachel ghost_town_huntress@yahoo.com

GaryB
09-16-2005, 02:41 PM
This post reads like a case of the Arianna Huffington club wanting reasonable people to move to them rather than their own moving toward the mainstream. Furthermore, the premise is absurd, because what was written has nothing to do with reality. These government agencies epitomize the hypocrisy contained in this post by allowing xmas tree cutting, spiking and chaining on large areas of public land. In reality, things are what they are, not what an emotive GT.com post wishes them to be.What I wish them to be? Please.

I myself see no harm in clearing an existing trail, but I'm not in power to say just do it. If I was freely allowed to, then I would. But I'm not, so I'll just drive around them little trees until I come across a government employee that I can complain too. Which I have found does actually work some times. I was also reciting info I know about first hand from past experiences and info relayed to me by BLM and Forestry employees, some were even family members.

You can't go X-Mas tree hunting just anywhere. They tell you where to go and when and after you buy your tag. I know that for a fact because I do it myself. You can't just go gather firewood anywhere and when ever you like, you go when and where they tell you after you pay or are given permission (seen it both ways) if at all. Come on over here some time and dig up a desert yucca or Joshua tree and take it home. Maybe you'll get it home, then again maybe someone sees you and the next thing you see is your truck on a rollback as they take it away from you (seen that happen first hand) and give you a nice little ticket. Park in a non-designated area during an off road race? The BLM likes to give those folks a ticket too, I know of 3 that have gotten them this year alone.

What I was getting at was some folks just can't follow rules, regardless of their intent or absurdity. They go out and do what ever they want, when ever they want. Then the folks who have the power come along, freak out and create more rules for the rest of that give a crap to follow or close it off to everyone. There are places I used to go all the time that are now off limits to OHV because of people like them. And they are the same people who give the tree huggers and whatever else you want to to call them the ammo they need to fight us. Maybe if these JO's played along, we'd all be better off. I'd rather tread lightly than walk really far myself. I get the feeling you'd just rather drive around the road closed sign and see if it really is huh?

Just like the hunters, excuse me; idiots that get farm land access to mountains closed off because they let all the cattle out because they are too lazy to close the gate they opened.

oregon4wd
09-26-2005, 04:33 AM
I agree with your last comment Rachel. I was up at the mine a few days before the Sprucemont rally. Currently it is quite manicured with only a few exceptions. (Sure beats what the road into Jefferson looks like!) The trail didn't seem too precarious and looked solid in the narrower area where the rock is sticking out. Still, I wouldn't recommend it for wider vehicles.- Doug

Photo location is just below that of Rachels first attachment where the vehicles are pulled off the trail.

GaryB
10-09-2005, 09:13 AM
I just got back from hunting south of Elko, NV and that picture pretty much describes all the roads I was on.

I also ran into some loggers clear cutting trails in the area. They said they not only had to get a permit from the BLM, but that they were told which trails to cut back and how. They cut down few trees and were mostly trimming the branches back.
My cousin's husband also took up 2 ATV's and was told specifically by the NDOW wardens that he was to stay on designated and existing trails. We saw signs of many that hadn't and saw many that weren't. Saw numerous small trees that had been run over so some idiot could turn his full-size truck around on a trail designated as a jeep or ATV trail. Being most of the area was recovering from wild fire damage, I wouldn't be surprised if the BLM closes the gate to most of the area after the winter.

Rockcrusher
10-09-2005, 11:31 AM
"Act of destruction and vandalism like yours"



Really? And what's the imperative that would dictate such?
That is a bonafide road, and clearing it is not an act of vandalism. It would help if the discussion in question didn't start with a flawed premise from a person who knows precious little of what he presumes to discuss.
I beg to differ with you. It is a crime to destroy property regardless of where the land is or who the landowner may be. In Nevada, cutting down a tree carries an 87% chance of being a violation of federal law.

In case you haven't noticed, the OHV community is under the microscope of the environmental industry. The BLM and the USFS are becoming increasingly anti-OHV/pro-enviro. That little 4" tree may mean nothing to you but for the greens, it's more ammunition in their quest for complete public land closures. To brag about it on a public forum is like putting out a fire with gasoline.

Do us all a favor and stay on the pavement . . . If you can't do that, at least don't brag about your misdeeds. I like looking for historical sites and I still have another 300 or so to visit.

BradM
03-19-2006, 03:53 PM
I get the feeling you'd just rather drive around the road closed sign and see if it really is huh?



Elevating one's self by citing others as inept is a worn out strategy, and thus this post with it's handwringing and credibility-detracting personal attack, reads like one of those hysterical animal rights activists shrilling on and on about how no one else in the US keeps their pets correctly except themselves.

BradM
03-19-2006, 04:27 PM
Do us all a favor and stay on the pavement . . If you can't do that, at least don't brag about your misdeeds. I like looking for historical sites and I still have another 300 or so to visit.


What a dishonest rebuttal to my post.
I'm not particulary thrilled with twice having my first post in this thread dishonestly represented as "bragging". Your use of the term is totally unsupported by anything even vaguely resembling fact.


Now that you've had your say, utterly devoid of substance as it was, I'll have mine. You do a disservice to the readers here when you make such judgmental presumptions, and you do a disservice to yourself when you display ignorance of the topic upon which you are attempting to comment. Here is a factoid for you. At the time, (and probably still at present) it is was legal to travel in that forest in any direction, road or no road, like it or not. That was the law. Thus cutting a small tree that had grown in a USGS mapped, hundred year old roadway is not the gross violation you claim it to be.

caver
03-23-2006, 11:24 AM
Love the timely discussions,,,,,,,,,, :)

GaryB
03-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Love the timely discussions,,,,,,,,,, :)

LOL, you noticed too?

Mikejts
03-23-2006, 06:22 PM
LOL, you noticed too?

I am trying to figure out if it is me or if the forum has changed. I used to visit everyday. Sort of lost interest since these type of topics and some other started poping up.

dvsww2
03-23-2006, 08:10 PM
Brad ,I agree with you as an ATV rider. I'm way past my prime of flying through the air and riding aggressively as it hunts like ****. I'm at the age that all the indiscression of my youth are starting to bother me and I'm haunted by pain of bad horse and motorcyle wrecks. Anyway I ride a lot slower than I used to. As for keeping trails open we need to keep maps and the trails open and also testify at the Forest Service and BLM meetings. May of these roads are RS2477 roads and are grandfathered for public use. The Forest Service took some legal knots on their heads on a major RS2477 case in southern Utah where it was reversed in the favor of the county. Right after that the Forest Service went and built a new road up the canyon at Jarbridge NV which was a total reversal of their earlier position on the road. They removed the outhouse and quitely left. I believe this was done to save face before Elko county was able to repair the road. One Organization I'd recommend is the BlueRibbon Coalition whose goal is to keep roads and trails open, For more info see sharetrails.org Thanks Howard in Idaho..."As I was walking that dusty highway, I saw a sign that said 'Private Property' . On the other side, It didn't say Nothin'. This Land is Made for You and Me" ---The Lost Verse to "This Land is My Land"

Rockcrusher
03-26-2006, 11:19 AM
What a dishonest rebuttal to my post.
I'm not particulary thrilled with twice having my first post in this thread dishonestly represented as "bragging". Your use of the term is totally unsupported by anything even vaguely resembling fact.


Now that you've had your say, utterly devoid of substance as it was, I'll have mine. You do a disservice to the readers here when you make such judgmental presumptions, and you do a disservice to yourself when you display ignorance of the topic upon which you are attempting to comment. Here is a factoid for you. At the time, (and probably still at present) it is was legal to travel in that forest in any direction, road or no road, like it or not. That was the law. Thus cutting a small tree that had grown in a USGS mapped, hundred year old roadway is not the gross violation you claim it to be.

I beg your pardon! Dishonest? How can you say that stating fact is dishonest. Federal law is quite specific regarding what can or cannot be done on public land and tree cutting without a permit is very near the top of the cannot list . . . regardless of whether or not that tree is in the middle of a hundred year old roadbed.

You don't have to believe me but I strongly suggest that you rumble on down to your local BLM or USFS office and present your scenario to them. You may be surprised at what they consider a "gross violation"

sbruce
03-03-2008, 03:46 PM
"When the people fear their government, that is tyranny; when the government fears the people, that is liberty."

Unforunately the few do spoil it for the many. And somone must protect our heritage from the unwashed masses.

But don't blame Arianna that the incompetent nincompoops of the federal gov't have been given the task...

More buttons to push. :eek:

Also it wasn't Arianna who ran me off the road on the way to Candelaria last year.

ApplegateRanch
11-18-2010, 08:27 PM
And I forgot to mention this Jeep was a rental. Needless to say we won't be renting from this certain company again; the Jeep was so scratched up and dented from this road above Belmont Mill; Oops!!

Rachel in Utah

We drove our Expedition up to the mine several years ago. We didn't get a scratch (that didn't easily buff out ;)) on it, although the thick coat of dust may have helped.

The 'Jack-in-the-Box' aerial ball came off in the sage brush portion a mile or so above the mill, when we pulled over for some guys on ATVs. We did manage to find it. It has since been retired to the antenna of our desk weather radio.

On the way back down, my wife got out & walked through the area where the rock in the road is. It wasn't too bad going up, with me on the inside, but coming down, when it was my turn to hang over the edge as the tires went up on the rock, I understood what motivated her to exercise her legs. I took a picture to show our service manager, that showed the the slight ruts & hump of the road, and the "shoulder". I made him look again, closer, at where our tire tracks were, while explaining that the tire track ruts were from ATVs. Not many inches to spare.