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Ghosttowns.com
08-18-1999, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Pubah


: Has anyone read the follwing message in the news section of the website?

: The Utah Department of Natural Resources is starting a mine

: reclaimation project. I talked to one of the men heading the project.

: He said that many of the old mining sights are going to be completely

: removed. Currently, they are working on the mines in the area of

: Mercur, Manning, West Dip, Topliff, Scranton, etc... Jacob City will

: remain untouched as it is on private property, and Ophir will remain as

: well.



: I can't believe that the state of Utah would be so brazen in destroying historical sites in the name of "safety" Is there something that we can do to stop them?? Let me know your feelings on this.

Ghosttowns.com
08-18-1999, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by kathy


: If we had an e-mail address, we could let our

: feelings be known by sending our comments to the

: proper place. Don't know what else we could do as

: a group so spread out.

emike09
07-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by Pubah


: Has anyone read the follwing message in the news section of the website?

: The Utah Department of Natural Resources is starting a mine

: reclaimation project. I talked to one of the men heading the project.

: He said that many of the old mining sights are going to be completely

: removed. Currently, they are working on the mines in the area of

: Mercur, Manning, West Dip, Topliff, Scranton, etc... Jacob City will

: remain untouched as it is on private property, and Ophir will remain as

: well.



: I can't believe that the state of Utah would be so brazen in destroying historical sites in the name of "safety" Is there something that we can do to stop them?? Let me know your feelings on this.

Yes it is brazen. It is disgusting. We've got a site that can help.

http://www.helpmojaveunderground.com

Use the resources there to send communications and let the receivers know your frustrations and that you want the reclamations projects stopped.

Stuartx09
07-24-2008, 06:17 PM
[quote=Ghosttowns.com;1334]Originally posted by Pubah


: Has anyone read the follwing message in the news section of the website?

: The Utah Department of Natural Resources is starting a mine

: reclaimation project. I talked to one of the men heading the project.

: He said that many of the old mining sights are going to be completely

: removed. Currently, they are working on the mines in the area of

: Mercur, Manning, West Dip, Topliff, Scranton, etc... Jacob City will

: remain untouched as it is on private property, and Ophir will remain as

: well.


Ha ha. This quote is a sick joke. Jacob city did not remain untouched. In fact it was completely destroyed by the DOGM. Virtually all of Ophirs mines have been backfilled and the rest have been gated. Utah's DOGM Abandoned Mine Reclamation program will not stop untill every mine in the state has been erased. I will not let this happen.

Joel
07-24-2008, 07:40 PM
I don't know much about Utah at all. We kind of have our own issues down here in Southern Arizona that have our attention.
Just how bad is the rate of destruction?

Stuartx09
07-24-2008, 07:47 PM
The rate at which DOGM is closing mines is incredible. Just this month they proposed a bid to destroy 116 mines. Every year they spend millions of dollars on mine closures and this rate is increasing at an alarming pace.

With overwhelming media support they continue to labor virtually unopposed. Groups like Gold Rush Expeditions:
http://www.goldrushexpeditions.com/
And Mojave Underground:
www.mojaveunderground.com (http://forums.ghosttowns.com/www.mojaveunderground.com)
are working very hard to stop DOGM. Hopefully we can make a difference and stop this madness.

Joel
07-25-2008, 05:17 AM
Well, I wish you luck. Once they're gone, they're gone for good. I'm a bit tired of seeing our own history bulldozed.

DirtyDog
07-25-2008, 08:12 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25854729/

Stuartx09
07-25-2008, 08:27 PM
"WASHINGTON - The government has endangered the public's health and safety by failing to clean up abandoned mines on federal land in the West, according to a scathing audit released Friday.The Interior Department's inspector general found dangerous levels of arsenic, lead and mercury, along with gaping cavities, at dilapidated hard-rock mining sites easily accessible to visitors and residents."


This mentality is not only destroying ghost towns and mining history across the country, but it is literally destroying our freedom! Since when is it the governments responsibility to make sure we stay away from danger? What ever happened to personal responsibility? If I drive my SUV into a shaft, its my own d*** fault! Why are we letting them use articles like these to destroy our history? In Utah, the Department of Oil Gas and Mining have gone on a mine killing spree, literally destroying thousands of mines and mine structures every year! We need to stand up to these people!

Joel
07-25-2008, 08:39 PM
Good link there. It's never been a secret that as the populations grow in the west, that the older mines are going to be found. It's just a matter of educating the new comers and the young regarding these hazards. Knowing human nature, it will be a losing battle as folks buy their kids kegs and tell them to go have fun somewhere else.
We've seen the mining corporations bulldoze a few ghost towns into oblivion already. Cerro Colorado, Tiger, Johnson and Silverbell come to mind all too quickly. Now the threat to the past is modern development of a different sort. Folks being in the middle of nowhere acting like they can just do as they please. For all those who read the link and are as horrified as I am as to the fate of the kids:
"Last year, 13-year-old Rikki Howard died and her younger sister was injured after they accidentally drove their all-terrain vehicle into an open 125-foot mine shaft near BLM's Windy Point Recreation Area in Kingman, Ariz.The mine shaft is on a small piece of private property surrounded by BLM land. Only after the accident, BLM provided a fence and warning signs for the site. Yet when auditors visited the area, they found two other deep mine shafts nearby, one unfenced and one only partially fenced, and with no warning signs."

Rikki and her sister 10 year old Cassie Hicks were off road and not on dirt. Basically, you have a 13 year old and someone even younger out riding where only licensed riders are suppose to be and they're not even on the road. And to my horror, their Dad was leading the way.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-04-3790395803_x.htm



Bad scenario here and I can see it happening again and again in the future as house, cookie cutter divisions and urban areas come nearer and nearer to what use to be remote or too far away mines. I think that we're going to lose a lot more mines in the future because of human nature here. Save a good ten year drought or an outright invasion from Mexico, I can see no end to this.

Stuartx09
07-25-2008, 08:50 PM
It is a sad story indeed, but I think it is especially sad when news organizations like MSNBC use tragic events like this over and over again to push a political agenda.

I agree that mine shafts in locations know to have a fair amount of ATV travel should have a grate placed over them. I do not in any way agree with Utah's plan to throw 100's of yards of backfill pulled from a nearby dump into every mine shaft they can find. This not only makes in impossible to study the mine and its workings in the future, but it also destroys the cultural landscape.

Joel
07-25-2008, 09:03 PM
I agree. The issue is two fold in this case. Ought the Government protect their citizens from their own folly or ought it step up enforcement of existing laws and regulations regarding Off Roaders?

This seems to be the age of the victim. I'm a victim, you're a victim, we're all victims and someone ought to protect us from ourselves.
We have laws regarding Off Road use, seldom enforced and when enforced, will get howlers going and cries of "Big Brother" fill the air.

We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. No easy way to go on this. The screaming yahoos aren't going to change, yelling and screaming about "liberal control" and the government believes that the destruction of our past is the easier way to go.

As ghost towners and Americans, we lose, our history loses and future generations lose just because folks won't think and comport themselves to the law in the present age.

pauline
07-26-2008, 07:58 PM
I agree that mine shafts in locations know to have a fair amount of ATV travel should have a grate placed over them. I do not in any way agree with Utah's plan to throw 100's of yards of backfill pulled from a nearby dump into every mine shaft they can find. This not only makes in impossible to study the mine and its workings in the future, but it also destroys the cultural landscape.

Stuart i can't say this any better then you did you are right that they are destroying our cultural history as they destroy these mines doing this

jbodine
07-26-2008, 08:29 PM
Hello Pauline welcome to the forum. It is hard to see all that they have done over in your neck of the woods what a shame.
On a side note I have relatives just a little to the SW of you in St.John

emike09
07-27-2008, 04:40 AM
We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. No easy way to go on this. The screaming yahoos aren't going to change, yelling and screaming about "liberal control" and the government believes that the destruction of our past is the easier way to go.

As ghost towners and Americans, we lose, our history loses and future generations lose just because folks won't think and comport themselves to the law in the present age.

We can have it both ways, and the solution is simple. Just use a little creativity. Simply put a grate over verticle mine shafts! Its what they have done for years in high trafic areas, why stop doing that and destory the mine completely!?

These grates use a high grade manganeese steel in 3/4" bars. They are strong enough to hold a semi on them. This allows people to even waltz out onto the grate, drop rocks down, feel the cool air, and get a glimpse of the history the mine has to offer.

And for horizontal opening? Leave them alone. I don't think any half intelligent ATV user is going to unknowingly waltz into a portal... In fact, the only incident I'm aware of in Utah since tracking of mine accidents begain was ol' Jeremiah Ethrington and his rediculous idea to lower himself down a 1300' winze with a simple rope tied around his waist... Some ask for thier own folley.

So are we going to allow the Government to destroy mining history so somebody can race around on thier expensive ATVs and drive into mine shafts? Don't get me wrong, I love ATV's. I've ridden for our farm in Idaho since I was 8; never had any incidents of any kind. I'm not letting some careless drivers ruin everything for all of us.

ghost_town_huntress
07-28-2008, 09:05 PM
I'd heard about this a few years ago already. Corey (onebadrover) and a few other local people have started a group to help save our mines here in Utah, maybe you can try and reach him. I know one of the projects they were focused on a while back was the Ophir mines. Eureka and the towns around there have also been reclaimed, though I have found a few in and around Eureka that they haven't bulldozed *yet*. I hope Corey and his group the best of luck in trying to get these guys stopped or at least slowed down in their destruction of our history.

Rachel in Utah ghost_town_huntress@yahoo.com

Gravelrash
07-29-2008, 05:39 AM
Joel, you've encapsulated the whole dilemma. Victims, stupidity....big Government.
The erosion of the last bastions of a free man typically starts with the mundane and easily overlooked, until, one day, evryone looks around and notices....."your old neighborhood....ain't even there no more"
(Courtesy Levon Helm)
Fight for it, folks. Have you noticed that, more and more, this type of news article is what gets posted here? Little by little, the America we all love is being dismantled.....in your name.

GaryB
07-29-2008, 12:09 PM
I agree with emike on this one. Where do we draw the line anyway? We'll close mines so we won't fall into them. Tear down structures so they won't fall on us. **** better kill the snakes, lizards, cougars and anything else that might bite us. Close all of the dirt roads so our cars won't get dirty and we in turn have to waste precious water washing them so our HOA's won't complain they are bringing down property values by being dirty.

Better yet, spend the millions on putting up grates, fences and signs that say if you are dumb enough to get hurt around these sites, maybe it's a message you should stay indoors till you're more responsible. If someone gets killed in a shaft or building after passing all of that, then so be it.

It's called natural selection.

BTW, I have a feeling more people die after driving into light/power poles than they do in mine shafts. Better get rid of those too. You know, I like being safe when I drive illegally.

teds280z
07-29-2008, 01:59 PM
Just left a msg on The beginning of the end. I agree if the people are so stupid to drive an ATV into a shaft what are they doing on that other than abusing it and our lands because you know they were not on the roads. Let them fall,I say. I even tried to drive my Kia into a mine(not a shaft) but the entrance was blocked just enough by a berm. The opening was big enough. Of course about 20' in it was blown up.:eek: I wasn't off the road either led right to it.

Joel
07-30-2008, 05:46 AM
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/aml.Par.54626.File.dat/FAST%2004-07-2008.pdf

It seems that as far as BLM is concerned, recreational destruction is more vital than history. :mad:

teds280z
07-30-2008, 06:48 AM
Oh I wanted to clarify my last message that the road lead into the mine and I just wanted a picture of my Sportage in the entrance. All I take is pictures and if I have the room some trash(bud cans, water bottles, etc that our environmental gurus and vandals leave all over the place. D*** I hate disrespect of my heritage.:mad:

emike09
08-01-2008, 06:12 AM
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/aml.Par.54626.File.dat/FAST%2004-07-2008.pdf

It seems that as far as BLM is concerned, recreational destruction is more vital than history. :mad:

Like said, if somebody needs the government to keep them out of mine shafts while using recreation vehicles, i recommend they keep indoors.

BLM, DNR, UDOGM, NFS, and all the other organization are recieving heavy federal funding to close these sites. They will not stop until the public refuses to allow it to occur and longer.

emike09
08-01-2008, 06:19 AM
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/aml.Par.54626.File.dat/FAST%2004-07-2008.pdf

It seems that as far as BLM is concerned, recreational destruction is more vital than history. :mad:

Like said, if somebody needs the government to keep them out of mine shafts while using recreation vehicles, i recommend they keep indoors.

BLM, DNR, UDOGM, NFS, and all the other organization are recieving heavy federal funding to close these sites.
They will not stop until the public refuses to allow it to occur and longer.

Joel
08-01-2008, 06:20 AM
I concur. It just seems that the screaming yahoos out number the decent folks these days. Just came across this in the paper.

1 Criminal damage was reported at 9:15 a.m. July 3 in the 11100 block of West Avra Valley Road. A farmer told police that someone shot at a fertilizer tank in his field. He said the damage caused 1,000 gallons of fertilizer to leak out of the tank and onto the ground. He told police he had seen a man riding an all-terrain vehicle in the area several times. He said the man carried a rifle slung across his back. The Northwest Fire/Rescue District's hazardous-materials team was called to assess the environmental impact of the spilled fertilizer. According to the report, 13 bullet shells were found around the tank.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/northwest/250280

Seems that freedom to destroy has been inserted into the Bill of Rights for some folks.

Also, I seem to remember a few years ago, that they were putting bat grates on a lot of old mines in Colorado, but they were being yanked off at an alarming rate. Anyone from Colorado know if the program was a success or a flop?