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dale persons
02-08-2005, 09:54 AM
Could someone please send me directions to Puntenney ghost town in arizona. It ia some where north of Paulden. Thank you Dale

bunk
02-09-2005, 04:16 AM
Could someone please send me directions to Puntenney ghost town in arizona. It ia some where north of Paulden. Thank you DaleI live in Chino Valley and have never heard of that one. If you have more info it might have been called something else by the locals.
Bunk

old judge
02-09-2005, 09:18 AM
You might check out Puntney on l897 RM World Atlas. Also, Kurt Wenner has been there and might respond directly to an e-mail or letter inquiry. See his info on this site. Looks to me like your location is on old rail grade NW of Paulden on or near trail up Big Chino Wash toward Seligman. Or, according to l915 Railroad Map, up old rail grade NE of Paulden toward Ash Fork. OJ

JeepinAZ
08-29-2007, 10:16 AM
If you are still interested in Puntenney.
I can tell you that a buddy of ours took us there couple months back, he even had trouble finding the exact area.
It is off the R.R. Tracks the only thing that remains is the graveyard, no markers one grave has a iron fence around it...tiny graveyard I must say {not much too it}
It was also known as Cedar Glades the cemetary is known as Cedar Glades Cemetary {its marked}
Its a turn off right before you get to H_ _ _ Canyon I believe...off HWY 89 I think its a right turn. Its remote being there is nothing left but the cemetary {which is hidden within a bunch of junipers/pine} which makes it hard to find.
I know this isn't much help, I do have a pic of the cemetary which I will try and dig up and post.
PIC IS NOW POSTED!!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z123/EMC526/DSC00847copy.jpg

Pnx Jay
09-30-2007, 08:31 PM
I moved up here to Paulden a little over a month ago. Apparently the locals know of a Puntenney that is not the actual Puntenney that most of the pictures on the page are from. A local I work with directed me to Puntenney with some fuzzy directions. I have been out the area he sent me to a number of times now and I realize he directed me to a different area known as Limestone Canyon. I am not aware if a settlement was ever established there but there is a 30 ft. or so kiln right next to the trail. That is the kiln pictured on the Ghosttown's Puntenney page. This area is about 8 miles west of the Cedar Glen Cem. clear on the other side of the 89. According to Sharlott Hall's page the 2 towns of Cedar Glen and Puntenney where just a short walk apart. I'll scope around the area next weekend if'n I get time. It's only a few miles north of the new home :rolleyes:. Ahhhhh, rural life.....

Jay

bad bob
09-30-2007, 08:49 PM
Ah yes Puntenney.
That's that popular town where the little badger named Phil pokes his head out and declares 6 more weeks of winter, right? :)

Pnx Jay
10-01-2007, 05:07 AM
Hey now, I was born on Groundhogs Day!!!

Pnx Jay
11-13-2007, 07:19 PM
I guess it has been a little more than the next weekend, but I have been snoping around the 'greater' Puntenney area and have come to the conclusion someone did a amazing job making any evidence of a town disappear. I have found the site pictured in the page and not much else. There is a large pile of lime spillage next to the tracks near the concrete structure in the photos. I have found a huge pile of old cans, but I can't even be sure they are from Puntenney or a more modern dumping ground. I know there is a little more to see around the kiln area pictured on the site such as a foundation or two, but I have broken the frame on my 'splorin truck again. Again, the kiln is around 8 miles from the Puntenney site.

Jay

GaryB
11-14-2007, 07:39 AM
but I have broken the frame on my 'splorin truck again.
Jay


Still rollin' in an IH?

campp
11-18-2007, 02:51 PM
I am not aware if a settlement was ever established there but there is a 30 ft. or so kiln right next to the trail. That is the kiln pictured on the Ghosttown's Puntenney page. This area is about 8 miles west of the Cedar Glen Cem. clear on the other side of the 89.
Jay

I was looking for the kiln and railroad ties pictured on the Ghosttown page, and am now realizing they are not at the H*** Canyon Puntenney. Did you see the railroad grade/ties near that tall kiln? 2WD? Easy to find? I'd like to get out there.

JEC
12-29-2009, 08:20 PM
Has anyone figured out the location of Puntenney? I just found a reference to it in a 1975 article in the journal 'Arizona and the West'. The map shows it as being located on the Prescott and Arizona Central RR line and not the Prescott-Phoenix line. I believe the pictues on the ghosttowns.com site are from the latter location. I could certainly be wrong as I've not yet visited the area. The former line was used from 1886 to 1893. I apologize for the poor image quality. I can get a better scan of it next week if anyone is interested.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/pazc.jpg

campp
12-30-2009, 03:51 AM
JEC, I have a line on the location, but the road was pretty wet last time I was there. Your map is correct, and I believe it to be on the former alignment, approx due west of He** Canyon a few miles. There's an obvious road heading that way. That's where the forum photos are from. I visited the "other" Putenney, which is just across from Drake (Cedar Glade). That's where another, newer lime load-out was built. Good Luck!

JEC
12-30-2009, 08:17 AM
Steve-

Thanks! I'm not sure why I thought the picture was from the location further east..... I should have known it was the older RR line to the west as it hasn't been used for over a century and the line in the picture looks extremely old. That is definitely not an are to go into when the roads are wet. Maybe next spring...

KE7WOX
01-24-2010, 09:10 PM
And the Putenney on the website, is it the one that's on the west side of SR-89? Depending on road conditions I might try to go there (no idea when, the roads are probably in horrible condition right now after the winter storm).

I've been in the Drake area before during the Prescott Rally, do you know how close is Cedar Glen to the Drake Cement Plant?

Besides wet, how bad were the roads in the area?

KE7WOX
02-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Update.

I have included a zoomed in shot of the Paulden USGS quad for reference and one with colored markings so you know which road I'm talking about.

I tried to reach the Cedar Glade cemetary yesterday and today (armed with more information). The road that appears on the USGS quad leading to "Cedar Glade Cem" (marked in blue) is no longer there or it might be a small trail (there was one), but doesn't appear to be vehicle accessible. Since I was by myself I decided not to hike. I forgot to take GPS coordinates to see where it is.

There is still no way to reach this point from FR-492 (the SR-89 - Drake Cement - Perkinsville road), as the small road going there (the one that crosses **** Canyon not too far away from the RR tracks) is now closed by what appears to be a limestone quarry operation (marked orange). You have to use FR 680 to get there.

There's a road that crosses the tracks (or that's what the quad says) and it seems to be closed, or, I drove down a road that ended up in a fence, the road might still cross the tracks but I wouldn't count on that.

FR 680 finishes at SR-89 and there's another road that continues after crossing SR-89 (lime green). The quad marks it as a decent road, but it actually has a limited use road sign (as opposed to the Primitive Road ones that pretty much mean unpaved highway where you can still do 50), the road is in bad conditions after the recent rains; I'd advise against bringing a 2WD or anything with low clearance.

Finally, the road going SW more or less parallel to SR-89 (purple dashed lines) is in decent condition, but there are still decent sized puddles of water and mud, so unless you know what you're doing, take SR-89.



http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3707/picture32.th.png (http://img297.imageshack.us/i/picture32.png/)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/581/picture322.th.png (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/picture322.png/)

campp
02-16-2010, 09:49 AM
KE7WOX,
The cememtary is there, but not reachable by Drake. Exit highway just south of Heck Canyon going west on dirt, and hang a left after about a mile towards the canyon. About where the road is closed off (used to be the main highway to Ash Fork across the old bridge = now inaccesable) jog off to the left (northwest). The cemetary is within a couple hundred yards, kind of hard to find because it is not large. Maybe half the size of a tennis court. Look for the borrow pit (mostly just a bunch of dug up holes). Just north of that.

There is also a cemetary just south of the Drake/BNSF crossing on Drake road, but the new plant swallowed it up. It is just southeast of the old stone house, perhaps a hundred yards. I'm not sure how they are going to grant access to it, but it was marked off and saved from destruction. I have pix of both. Looks like they saved the house too, last time I was there.

This is also where the lime loadout structures remain. Be sure to stay well clear of the RR tracks!

KE7WOX
02-16-2010, 03:00 PM
So it is accessible by foot then. Sounds to me like it is the foot trail I saw, or somewhere in the surroundings.

Can you post pictures of the stuff in there so that I can see what it looks like?

I didn't see the stone house and those buildings around the plant, but again, I wasn't looking for anything in the place where the plant is being built (other than the mixers I wanted to take pictures of).

lgcyfrms
07-05-2010, 05:09 PM
We are thinking of going to find Puntenney tomorrow considering it is in our "back yard". Has anyone been there recently? Also just so I am clear I take the first forest road after He**'s Canyon?

KE7WOX
08-09-2010, 07:21 PM
Just wondering, did you go there?

If so, did you go to the one on the website? or to the Cedar Glade cem?

sopapilla
10-03-2010, 10:17 PM
Does anyone know if both towns of Puntenney where in existence between 1918-1922? I was recently there on the Santa Fe Railroad line side and did manage to find the old Cedar Glade Cemetery. I was not able to cross over to Drake on old highway 89 because it is blocked off. I am planning another trip there to see if I can find the where the Arizona Central railroad tracks once where and that old chimney I see in the pictures. I did bring home a piece of a broken glass from a bottle that I found on the site. There is so much trash that litters the area. I had the glass piece dated to about 1900 by a glass bottle collector.

KE7WOX
10-05-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't think much remains of Drake and/or Cedar Glade, I believe there is a house and possibly another cemetary which is now within the cement plant property boundaries.

When you mention the old Highway 89, does that mean taking that old road around Paulden and then getting somewhere (the RR tracks?). I know there is one road that the maps and imagery mark as a road that crosses the railway, not far away from the cemetery (same main road), but IIRC, there was chainlink fencing around the RR tracks. I know there is a network of roads starting in Paulden, but haven't explored.

KE7WOX
10-16-2010, 11:02 PM
New information. I plan on submitting this and current pictures to the site tomorrow.
I went there yesterday and today.
The kiln is 2.8 miles west of 89 on FR-573 (first accessible road south of Heck Canyon), accessible by a mid clearance 2WD (~31" tires). The kiln is now surrounded by chainlink fencing, aswell as a wooden fence farther away, 3 USFS signs indicate "Historic Limestone Kiln", "Structure fragile and unstable", "Keep Away". There is a large crack running top to bottom.

The other structures pictured in the site (round structures and walls) appear to be much newer, they're located about 1-1.5 miles east of 89 on a small trail off FR-573. The round tanks are right off the current BNSF rail. The old descriptions of "both sites being within walking distance" are reasonable, as this is about 4 miles apart.

The location of Puntenney in the old maps, marked as being on the old railroad (Prescott & Arizona Central) are accurate with this location, as the kiln is right off the old railroad grade (as per Google Earth, a USGS topo overlay, hand taken coordinates and an approximate driven distance). So it looks like Puntenney was was where the kiln is and Cedar Glade was on the other side (precisely where the cemetery is) and where the newer structures are, confirmed with the old maps, Cedar Glade would have been on the (back then) Santa Fe, Prescott and Phoenix (Ashfork branch of the Santa Fe RR??), which is now the still active BNSF line. It seems from the topos that part of the Prescott and AZ Central line used to run where FR-573 currently runs.

Also, not far away from the kiln, but on the other side of the wash/small canyon is what looks like a mine tailings pile, however, the quad makes no mention of a mine there (doubt there's anything other than limestone in there), however, the approximate location is consistent with that the topo marks as the end of the old railroad grade, so it could be that they simply removed rock to build the grade and then just dumped it to the side of the mountain.

A much older post says 8 miles from some site, but I can't see anything being that far away. We drove for approximately 5 miles west of 89 and ended up turning around as my friend's truck is not in great shape (mostly his suspension). The road becomes very narrow, the grade worsens and there are some steep climbs/descents. I'd rate the road being about the same as Poland Rd and the Senator Hwy, or slightly worse. I checked the adjacent quads and roads (Picacho Butte SE, Meath Spring) and there seems to be no mention of anything related to Puntenney.

My friend heard over summer of some awesome offroading trail that these guys called "Heck Canyon", it seems like they were referring to this road, and the Limited Use Road sign should not be taken lightly. I would recommend no less than 31" tires if you want to go past FR9017R (Lower Limestone Tank - dry as of today) and 4WD (we made the trip back in 4LO, it's quite the steep climb). BTW, he heard about this trail when he was in Michigan.

We also heard something mentioned during the Prescott Rally that one of the stages used to be over there years ago (I'd estimate back during the first few years of the rally), as the road seems to be quite bad.

Also, when there's wet weather the road is all tracked and there's a couple of washes you have to cross, and there's thick mud.

That's what I have for now, I'll post pictures after I get some sleep

JEC
10-12-2011, 07:16 PM
In early July of this year I walked an ~ 4 mile section of the Prescott and Arizona Central RR grade from Hwy. 89 to the old limestone kiln at Putnenny. The line is very distinct on Google Earth. Forest road 573 was constructed on about a mile of it. This road veers off from the grade near the top of the hill just southeast of the kiln. I've spent a fair bit of time on Google Earth trying to follow it from the kiln to Seligman but can't get more than a handful of miles and then loose it. The kiln itself was very impressive as were the quarries behind it. There is a very distinct old trail from the RR grade down to the kiln. The kiln must have consumed huge amounts of wood as I found dozens axe cut stumps up to three miles away. OHV users have used a portion of the old grade but, for the most part, it is in pretty decent shape. Earlier in this thread I posted the name of an article that was written on this line. It is very interesting reading. John Sayre's 'The Santa Fe, Prescott & Phoenix Railway' (known as the Peavine) also discusses the rise and fall of this line and how it was related to the creation of the Peavine. The line was only used for a handful of years and was abandoned, if I remember correctly, in 1893.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1721.jpg
Here is the grade just west of where it crosses Hwy 89.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1722.jpg
Here is a portion of a short stretch that had cinder ballast still in place. I'm not used to seeing this on the logging grades that are on the Coconino and Kaibab National Forests north and northwest of this location.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1733.jpg
This is a portion of the grade that has been converted into a road. I've got my beagle on a leash because of the cows in the area. She has walked many miles of RR grades with me over the past decade.

JEC
10-12-2011, 07:20 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1734.jpg

This is an intact wooden culvert. I've never found one in this nice of shape. Look closely and you can see a rattlesnake hanging out in it.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1752.jpg

This is one of the few ties I found.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1747.jpg

Backside of the limestone kiln.

JEC
10-12-2011, 07:24 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1744.jpg

Limestone quarry adjacent to the kiln.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1748.jpg

Another quarry near the kiln.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1740.jpg

This is the line entering a cut in the limestone just behind the kiln. There is a well defined trail from this location down to the kiln.

JEC
10-12-2011, 07:30 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1754.jpg

This is an axe cut juniper stump. I've done a lot of work in pinyon/juniper over the last decade in my work as a research forester and I've rarely seen old juniper stumps like this. Seeing recent ones from firewood cutters is common but certainly not these old ones.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/jec27/Railroad/1759.jpg

I found an area that had a large concentration of pottery sherds, mano pieces, and chipped stone.

JEC
10-19-2011, 08:46 PM
After a bit more research and inquiry, I realized that the grade I describe above is actually the original alignment of the Santa Fe, Prescott and Phoenix (Peavine) RR. I’ve been trying to locate information on the route of the Prescott and Az Central RR for a couple of years now with very little luck. The map I posted earlier that was from a 1974 publication showed one of the locations on the line as Puntenney. Other earlier posts in this thread showed that name associated with the lime kiln. The ghosttowns.com discussion of Puntenney also states that the RR grade near the lime kiln is the old Prescott and Az Central line. There also seems to be another location referred to as Puntenney east of 89 near Cedar Glade. Lastly, I also have that name associated, on a 1937 Forest Service map, with a ranch NW of Paulden.
David Myrick’s ‘Santa Fe to Phoenix: Railroads of Arizona Volume 5’, John Sayre’s ‘ The Santa Fe, Prescott, and Phoenix Railway’ as well as the 1974 article describe the Prescott and Az Central line as heading south from Prescott Jct. (Seligman) through Railroad Canyon and then following Big Chino Wash. It is also described as having been hastily constructed that the ties and rails were put directly on the ground with no real grade or ballast to speak of. The well-defined grade I followed in July doesn’t fit that at all. Most importantly, Big Chino Wash is south of the grade I followed. I have, in the past few days, identified potential portions of the Prescott and Az Central grade that I want to check out. One final thing, Myrick’s book states that one of the locations on the line is ‘Putney’s’ , not Puntenney.

campp
10-23-2011, 04:26 AM
JEC - Great information and photos, thanks a bunch! I just wandered in here and BAM!

From what I've read and seen on the ground, the various railroads involved changed all those routes quite a bit. From Williams Jct down the hill to the river, and the whole Ash Fork / Peavine thing down to Phoenix. Lots and lots of changes! You're right about that wooden culvert, never saw one. There's still a lot of "infrastructure" left from these roads.

Interesting the ATSF called it Putney. That's their local name I'll bet. It does get spelled and miss-spelled a lot of ways. I would defer to the USGS.