PDA

View Full Version : Are all the good sites in So. AZ off limits?



brian10x
08-06-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't want this to sound like whining, and I apologize if it does, but are all the good ghost towns in Southern Arizona off limits?

Most of you know of my trials and tribulations that have followed me in my attempt to find the Black Diamond mine. The main trail is fenced in by a locked gate (albiet illegally, I'm told) and I nearly got myself killed trying to get around it.

I've found no tresspassing signs near Gleeson, Courtland, fenced in prime locations near Tombstone, and of course Ruby is Pay-per-view, which sorta takes all adventure out of it.

Silverbell is plowed under, Copper Creek is now off limits (as well as the Bunker Hill mine and all remains in that area).

I hear Duquesne is sold and now closed off (I have so many fond memories of that place) so further exploration of the area is shut down for good.

So, I find myself asking, is it still a worthwhile hobby? (In this area of the state) I'm about to sell the death trap ATV on EBay, to replace it with something more stable, but still tiny enough to negotiate the trails here. (I've always liked the Suzuki Samurai for being light and nimble).

But I wonder if its still worth the effort? I really don't want to drive all day to get to good sites.

Is Southern Arizona a lost resource for ghost towns? Or am I just inept at locating good leads?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

brian10x
08-06-2006, 04:04 PM
Whinning? OHHHHHHH NNOOOOOOO..I don't wanna!

Yeh yer whinning.
But you are also right. The good ol'days in Arizona are gone forever. Between human & natural impact there is very little left.

The earliest history in this area was centered around Tubac, Tucson & the Heintzelman mine, (Cerro Colorado). Tucson is a chit hole of a city with no regard for its roots, Tubac is an artsy fartsy tourist trap in the middle of yuppie McMansions, & Cerro Colorado has been deliberately leveled so no evidence of a town remain.

Ruby is as you say "pay per view", Salero & Duquesne are privately owned & visitors plum aint welcome. Of course if they weren't locked down for all these years there would be nothing left of them either.

Alto is worth a trip if you havent seen it, beautiful setting. Also the Worlds Fair in the Patagonias.

The northern part of the state is the same, touristy like Jerome or enthusiasticly defended pot farms like the Bradsaws.

The fact is AZ has been the fastest growing state for many years & this is the result. I guess its Nevadas turn now.

Growing up here we used to sit up on the hill & look towards the Catalinas at night & only see about a dozen lights & reach out & touch the milky way.

No worries though, we'll run out of water soon & then they will stop building.

Thats showbiz.

TW
Thanks, TW. At least I have my other hobbies, unless they outlaw fast motorcycles as "too dangerous" or the liberals try to take my guns away. President Hillary?
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Goat
08-06-2006, 05:07 PM
I'm feeling the same way, fella's. A lot of sites are off limits, and Southern Nevada, too, is running low on water.

The plus side, of course, is that as water restrictions become tighter, the weeding out process will start. Developers will stop building, and investors will stop buying property and inflating housing prices. Man, every day I hear people complaining about the heat- it's a desert! Try not running the air con in your car for a summer, you'll acclimate pretty quickly.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just feeling crowded in Vegas, I guess!

Hey Brian, have you ever given thought to doing your exploring on a trail bike, instead of a quad? I've got some 200's and 125's, and they get me where I wanna go. You just have to put on a CamelBak for liquid, and carry a few tools in a fanny pack, and that's it.

Goat

LauraA
08-06-2006, 05:18 PM
Maybe we're luckier than most because of where we live. There are still quite a few places up here in the Salome Wilderness and the Sierra Ancha Wilderness. (no vehicle traffic permitted, gotta hike to these) as well as in the Tonto National Forest. The ones we've found in the TNF are mining camps, not actual towns, it's doubtful that there was ever a post office in some of these remote locations. We enjoy finding the old mining camps, they're a bit more personal than an actual GT and certainly less frequented by people than an actual GT.
We haven't run into many locked gates, just closed gates where entry is permitted as long as the gate is closed again to keep free range cattle from wandering. Being a national forest, of course there isn't much private land within its boundaries, just some ranches, homesteads and small developments like the one we live in.
The forest service had a meeting several months ago for locals, to clarify a few things about possible road closures and superfund money allocated to close up old mines. I don't think the forest service people, (at least our local rangers) are as zealous as BLM is to close off mines, they seem to feel as we do, that these places should be preserved and not destroyed. We're keeping our fingers crossed that they'll leave some of our prime locations alone and let nature take its course, so far, so good.
Thankfully, we're not seeing development in our area, we're too far from the big city and other than the fabulous scenery, beautiful lake, super nice people, there isn't much here to attract people. ;)

brian10x
08-06-2006, 05:41 PM
I'm feeling the same way, fella's. A lot of sites are off limits, and Southern Nevada, too, is running low on water.

The plus side, of course, is that as water restrictions become tighter, the weeding out process will start. Developers will stop building, and investors will stop buying property and inflating housing prices. Man, every day I hear people complaining about the heat- it's a desert! Try not running the air con in your car for a summer, you'll acclimate pretty quickly.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just feeling crowded in Vegas, I guess!

Hey Brian, have you ever given thought to doing your exploring on a trail bike, instead of a quad? I've got some 200's and 125's, and they get me where I wanna go. You just have to put on a CamelBak for liquid, and carry a few tools in a fanny pack, and that's it.

Goat
Yes, yes I have. Lack of storage was my main concern. I'm fairly spoiled having a cooler handy at all times, and then there's the fantasy of finding "something" and not being able to bring it back.

I guess thats where duct tape comes in handy???

I may have to re-consider. I know street bikes pretty well. What would you recommend for a fat, middle-aged guy like me?

Flatiron
08-06-2006, 06:29 PM
Brian.............If you're looking for info on Suzuki Samarais, check out a club of "Zuke" owners called the "Zukes of Arizona". I've four-wheeled with a few of them, and think they are way underpowered, but most of these guys have a blast with 'em. Good luck..........

Goat
08-06-2006, 06:38 PM
Whew, that's a tough one! Since you're an experienced street guy, you know the basics, so that's an obstacle already conquered. You really can't go wrong with a Honda XR400 or XR250. Reliable as rocks, and always available. If you want an electric start on it, then there's the Yamaha TTr250. If you want something shorter with an electric start (but anemic power), Honda and Yamaha both make 230's that fit the bill. All of the bikes have a pretty good aftermarket trove available, too.

Goat

brian10x
08-06-2006, 07:38 PM
Brian.............If you're looking for info on Suzuki Samarais, check out a club of "Zuke" owners called the "Zukes of Arizona". I've four-wheeled with a few of them, and think they are way underpowered, but most of these guys have a blast with 'em. Good luck..........
The "Zuke" my be my best bet yet. I've considered one for years. I drove one off road years ago and was amazed at its agility.

Based on that experience, I feel the early Zuke to be the logical successor to the old "flat-fender" Jeep of WW2.

yes, its grossly underpowered, but so was the original Jeep. So, some might add, are the late model 4- banger Jeeps. (Sorry laura)

That said, I never felt horsepower was nearly as important as good gearing on the trail. If I remember right, in 4-lo, that old Zuke would climb just like a javalina with its arse on fire.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

LauraA
08-06-2006, 07:49 PM
I feel the early Zuke to be the logical successor to the old "flat-fender" Jeep of WW2.

yes, its grossly underpowered, but so was the original Jeep. So, some might add, are the late model 4- banger Jeeps. (Sorry laura)


:confused: :confused: :confused:

Yep, can't argue that fact, on the highway going up hills, you can hear it say, "I think I can, I think I can," (especially with the air conditioner on, drastically cutting power) but four wheeling off road, it does really well. The only obstacles thus far have only been my severe fear of heights and tippy narrow roads that even the flaming javelina would bypass.

GaryB
08-06-2006, 08:53 PM
I guess its Nevadas turn now.


No worries though, we'll run out of water soon & then they will stop building.



TW

You can keep that claim all you want. And soon South Arizona will turn to stealing water from it's other counties just like they are doing here. Pump the state dry so the yuppies can play their golf on green grass and wash their Escalades every day.

If it were me, I'd turn Clark County over to California and line the county line with Rednecks armed with shotguns and dogs frothin' at the mouth with rabies with permission kill anyone trying to taint the rest of this state.

But only after I find a job North of this cess pool we call Vegas ;)

Flatiron
08-07-2006, 05:16 AM
Running out of water? Right! If the Valley of the Sun is short of water, then why did they approve 32,000 more building permits and 16 more golf course permits? I love to wash my truck, Jeep, quad, and boat in my driveway, just waiting for one of these dumb***es to tell me I should conserve water because we're in a drought. It appears SRP has enough water to build x number of homes and golf courses, and you want me to conserve water so they can move more people into the area. I don't think so! At least we're 45 miles from Phoenix and not stuck in the middle of that mess. Just like Vegas, this is the DESERT, and there will always be wet and dry cycles. If water is so scarce, then stop building homes! OK, I'll calm down now.............:eek: :eek:

LauraA
08-07-2006, 02:36 PM
It's after 4 somewhere, beer me...
TW Here ya go TW318

As annoying as it is for us, I can't help but think about my grandkids. They or surely their kids will probably never have the thrill of exploration of these great historical sites that we're able to enjoy, granted, in dwindling numbers, but still there for us. All they'll be able to see are photos, some museum displays and some misinformation in their history books. :mad:
Right now Phoenix is slurping water from Roosevelt Lake in alarming quantities and the utility companies are crying the blues about summer useage, yet, just drive through Phoenix and surrounding burbs and take a look at the new homes, golf courses, shopping centers and the like. It's enough to make a person want to drop out of society and move to the boondocks...oh yea...I HAVE.

LauraA
08-08-2006, 05:39 AM
LaurA, yer not a trailblaizer, I was born & raised here before your little sub-division existed. I've seen the change happen. Don't lecture me on livin' in the sticks, I did i, It, I'm glad I was raised that way.

You dropped out of society eh'? I was raised outside of society. Don't bust my chops, I I know my roots.

You moved here from somewhere else, don't make a big cllaim that you belong here here.



Well, my goodness, I'm sorry to see that your cornflakes were soggy this morning and you feel your porkchops were being broken. Aren't you the lucky one to be raised "outside of society"? Perhaps that's why you thought that this Bronx-born, New York native was directing barbs at you. Once you live in society, usually a person learns to tell the difference between a comment in general and a zinger directed at you. Had I directed a chop-busting barb your way, believe me, you'd know you were hit.
As far as you being here "long before my little subdivision existed", I didn't realize you were quite that old, my "little subdivision" was developed when the Roosevelt Dam plans were being made, (I hope you got Teddy Roosevelt's autograph when you had the chance)
Also, I didn't know you are either a Native American or an early settler to Arizona and that your original roots are growing so deep in Arizona's sandy soil. Most people move from one location to another and can claim each place as their home. (thank goodness, cause we sure wouldn't have this fabulous Nation if they hadn't) Roosevelt, Arizona is my home and as a latter-day societal dropout, I say, I belong here, I Belong Here, I BELONG HERE.
In my advancing years one valuable lesson life has taught me is "don't let the dorks wear you down," So now I'll go on my merry way and see if there's any trailblazing left in this wonderful place for a former New Yorker to machete her way through.


An afterthought here, perhaps I was wrong in hoping the dust would settle, evidentially, it hasn't, it might not and perhaps you shouldn't have inhaled as much of it as it sounds like you did. (kerosene and sugar might be a good cure for that cough) but then again, it might be too late, I guess native dust can be toxic when inhaled. Too bad.

LauraA
08-08-2006, 05:51 AM
Bump. Is that how its done?

;) Uh huh, it's a step in the right direction :D

GaryB
08-08-2006, 02:30 PM
Wait, did I miss something? I really need to TiVo this stuff for slo-mo replay......

bad bob
08-08-2006, 05:14 PM
Wait, did I miss something? I really need to TiVo this stuff for slo-mo replay......

Then you want the NeTvO 3411b. Best Buy has them on sale for $8,000. No slo-mo, but instant replay instead.
b.

bad bob
08-10-2006, 10:02 AM
Whooops!
Jes bumped into something...what was that evil.
Oh I C, another freakin' spammer.

old judge
08-10-2006, 01:02 PM
yup........ OJ

equi
08-16-2006, 06:25 PM
As far as I can work it out, the definition of a Ghost Town is one that has been abandonded, or in other words private property in which a person has forfeited any claim of ownership.

Therefore I don't see how it is possible to "trespass" or what authority anyone could have for posting "no trespassing" signs, unless the area has been declared a State Park or similar.

In any case, if somebody is trying to keep you out, doesn't that make you wonder what the heck they are up to?

bad bob
08-16-2006, 07:00 PM
As far as I can work it out, the definition of a Ghost Town is one that has been abandonded, or in other words private property in which a person has forfeited any claim of ownership.

Therefore I don't see how it is possible to "trespass" or what authority anyone could have for posting "no trespassing" signs, unless the area has been declared a State Park or similar.

In any case, if somebody is trying to keep you out, doesn't that make you wonder what the heck they are up to?

Did anyone understand what this msg says? If you do, I nominate you for Supreme Exhaulted Grand Llama of Ghost Town Forums.

bb.

GaryB
08-16-2006, 08:33 PM
I understand.

But the problem is folks can buy property and regardless of what is on it, lock it up as they please. Fighting to keep them from destroying anything can usually lead to years of court cases and likely end up with them winning as more and more folks are backing the destruction of old towns, buildings, mines simply for the safety of stupid people that tend to get hurt being, well stupid.

bad bob
08-16-2006, 09:15 PM
Gary.. I mean Grand Llama.

First, his definition of a ghost town is incorrect. Abandoned property with ownership forfeited is not defined as a Ghost Town.

Next, I don't recall seeing any "no tresspassing" signs in State Parks. If a town is designated a State Historical Park, tourism is generally encouraged. Some areas may be off limits to help preserve delicate items or areas.

Last, "makes one wonder what they're up to"? The evil scientist inventing what? Drug gangs brewing meth? Torture chambers?

I believe a further "probe" is needed on this one.

GaryB
08-17-2006, 02:37 PM
His wording is wrong, but his question is clear to me anyway.

Realistically most all land is owned by some one some where. What the BLM don't control, you have state, county, developers, etc hogging it up. I've run into folks that own the property where I want to go, and some times they let you check it out. Some times not. The BLM usually won't stop you unless it's a critical ACEC, immanent danger, reseed/new growth, etc. The state and counties are usually so back logged and unaware that you can do as you please. And unfortunately Nevada doesn't have too many historical GT parks, but what we do have are usually open year around without issue.

But I have run into those that claim the land as theirs when you know in the back of your mind that it likely isn't. I know some areas that folks have run into these types as they were guarding their crops or labs and chased off the "tourists". I have had one run in with some peculiar characters at an abandoned site by Elko, but we never saw exactly what they were being funny about. Luckily we out numbered and were far more armed than they (hunting season) so they didn't get too pushy, but they never did leave us alone till we left.

bad bob
08-17-2006, 03:34 PM
In that case, I'll take your word for it, and nominate you for the previously mentioned title. And since there are no other nominees, you own the title.

I bow to your superior knowledge, and request you be lenient on a humble old man.

This title comes with an annual annuity of $200,000, a stretch limo, two villas, one in southern France, and the other in Switzerland, (actually a chalet). You're also entitled to all you can eat buffet at Shakey's, and 7 virgins to help ease the daily drudgery of ruling over your Llamadom.

And now sire, you are on your own until you choose your advisory panel.

brian10x
08-17-2006, 05:40 PM
In that case, I'll take your word for it, and nominate you for the previously mentioned title. And since there are no other nominees, you own the title.

I bow to your superior knowledge, and request you be lenient on a humble old man.

This title comes with an annual annuity of $200,000, a stretch limo, two villas, one in southern France, and the other in Switzerland, (actually a chalet). You're also entitled to all you can eat buffet at Shakey's, and 7 virgins to help ease the daily drudgery of ruling over your Llamadom.

And now sire, you are on your own until you choose your advisory panel.

Advisor available. Will work for ice cream and ammunition.

bad bob
08-17-2006, 07:09 PM
Advisor available. Will work for ice cream and ammunition.

Advisors receive $65,ooo annually, a station wagon, log cabin in the mountains, all ya can keep down at Barney's Roadkill Grease-eria & Grog Bar, 1 retired airline stewardess, and of course ice cream & ammo as needed.
bb.

Flatiron
08-18-2006, 02:44 PM
How old is the stewardess, what flavor ice cream, and what caliber ammo? Most of my long guns are lever action cowboy shooters in .44-40, .38-40 , .25-20, etc. I'm definitely interested.........:D :D .....

bad bob
08-18-2006, 03:03 PM
How old is the stewardess, what flavor ice cream, and what caliber ammo? Most of my long guns are lever action cowboy shooters in .44-40, .38-40 , .25-20, etc. I'm definitely interested.........:D :D .....

70, ice cream & ammo unlimited.
bb.

GaryB
08-19-2006, 11:33 PM
This title comes with an annual annuity of $200,000, a stretch limo, two villas, one in southern France, and the other in Switzerland, (actually a chalet). You're also entitled to all you can eat buffet at Shakey's, and 7 virgins to help ease the daily drudgery of ruling over your Llamadom.



I'll take it for the money so I can get to exploring all the cool places here I can't get to 'cause of gas prices. Actually, that's not true, I can't get to them because I have to work for a living :mad:

Is that Shakey's Pizza? If so I'm all over it. Haven't had that here for 20 years about :mad:

Don't need any virgins, and I hate the French. Brian can have them if'n he agrees to wash my Scout when I come back from my adventures in the boonies.

Might keep the chalet though ;)

GaryB
08-19-2006, 11:34 PM
70, ice cream & ammo unlimited.
bb.


Good, she can take her dentures out :eek:

Yourfriendnick
08-20-2006, 03:52 AM
I love bikes i have owned a XR 500 since they were first introduced . I raced in something called the battle of the brands in pro dirt track back in the early 80's and loved it . Here in the midwest we walk in mostplaces . It would be so neat to drive in and I would think a bike with modifications would be best as it would be street legal . Surely you cannot ride quads on the roads out there can you ? I could see using a xr 250 with either a pull behind cart like used by pedal cyclists or some sort of side car as the optimum vehicle as it would be legal on the road and carry camping plus finds out . I can see from reading all your posts that legalities of treasure finding similar to problems metal dectector enthusiasts have are involved in your sport . They would make great allies . We need laws that are rational and encourage finds not push them underground . Finds should be taxed as income with a cut to the land holder . Penalties for not declaring should be steep enough for one to want to declare yet kind enough to make it reasonable also . Only us involved have any reason to make sure these things are done . IF you dont toot your own horn it don't get played . Good morning all ....your a nice group . This is a neat hobby . I first became intersted due to seeing some pictures on the net posted by a couple from Europe . I suffer from very severe chronic pain and now after a decade of treatment for it very severe opiate addiction and side effects that are now deemed to be permanent and life threatening . I find a little diversion and pleasure here .....I can only dream of actually going in the field again . On this thread I again see what has hurt me so many times ...this Native arguement that I am in some way better becuase I was here first and everyone else messed up my world ....change is inevitable ..how we react to it and whether we adapt so its proactive not detrimental is up to us . Easier said then done . Change has always been disturbing to me .

bad bob
08-20-2006, 09:43 AM
I'll take it for the money so I can get to exploring all the cool places here I can't get to 'cause of gas prices. Actually, that's not true, I can't get to them because I have to work for a living :mad:

Is that Shakey's Pizza? If so I'm all over it. Haven't had that here for 20 years about :mad:

Don't need any virgins, and I hate the French. Brian can have them if'n he agrees to wash my Scout when I come back from my adventures in the boonies.

Might keep the chalet though ;)

Yes Sire...
That is Shakey's Pizza. Here it is also all-you-can-eat buffet. I will order them to move to the city of your preferred residence. Next, since you detest the French, I will order all of them to move to Eastern Russia.

Now this "Scout" you wish Brian to wash, it IS a vehicle, correct? Separate staff is of course assigned for personal hygiene, and vehicle maintenance.

The retired stewardess' are for your advisors, sire. Other arrangements will be necessary, should you have no interest in the versions...that is ...I mean virgins.

Finally, all of the benefits, and overseas palaces are yours only for the duration of your reign. You must relinquish these once the rain has stopped.

Ghosttowns.com
08-20-2006, 10:17 AM
"Surely you cannot ride quads on the roads out there can you ?"

Actually yes. A little less so in Phoenix but everywhere else yes. Not only can you but they really force you to register them as street legal. When you buy a new quad now, or a used one and transfer the title, they want you to send in $$ for street legal registration - they dont do any inspections or anything. Then if you are caught even on a dirt road (forest service, county maintained, or state trust land) and you dont have the street plates, you get a ticket - usually around $250 - they care more about having the money from all the quads registrations each year then whether they are properly outfitted for the street - here you will even see people riding them down the freeway or to the store, especially in towns like prescott, payson, flagstaff etc...

Flatiron
08-21-2006, 05:16 AM
Not only quads, but golf carts too.:D :D :D :D

LauraA
08-21-2006, 08:07 AM
Does registering a quad mean insurance for it too? If so, do insurance companies charge an arm and a leg for quad insurance? :confused:
This is what we'd love to have, this one's an Arctic Cat but any side-by-side two seater would do. Since it's a true luxury item, (can't live in it, eat it, or wear it) it would have to be used and CHEAP. :(



377

High Desert Drifter
08-21-2006, 10:35 AM
wow, interesting thread. and it has changed directions many times!

Laura, your one tough cookie who can stand her ground!

I am a quad riding explorer and that is why I love Nevada so much. Although I live in California, most of my exploring by quad is in Nevada - The park and ride state! Insurance on my Grizzly 660 is as little as $11.00 per month (state farm) covers theft, damage and liability.

LauraA
08-21-2006, 11:47 AM
Naw..I'm not really tough....I'm reminded of my all-time favorite line from a movie, "Fried Green Tomatoes," after Kathy Bates' character rams her car into a car being driven by a couple of young chippies after they took her parking space (which she'd waited a long time to get) "I'm old and I've got more insurance."
Right or wrong, I can officially use my age as an excuse to be cantankerous. ;) :D

NWNative
08-21-2006, 06:18 PM
I love tht line! I am waiting for a chance to bash some poor idiot's car and use it. (However, I suspect that the police might become involved. I wonder how you prove temporary insanity?)

High Desert Drifter
08-21-2006, 09:47 PM
I love tht line! I am waiting for a chance to bash some poor idiot's car and use it. (However, I suspect that the police might become involved. I wonder how you prove temporary insanity?)

That's easy, just carry some of Brian10X photos in your wallet and let them fall out when they ask for your license and registration!

toto151
06-13-2009, 05:47 AM
I will be making a trip to the Gleeson on June 24. I was there in the 70s and i was able to get permission to walk the mine dumps and photograph any ruins.
Have they shut off everybody from going to the area Ghosttowns and the one ones that may be open do they alllow rockhounding and also night time photography.
Ron

ghost_town_girl77
06-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Some of the ruins are obviously on private property in Gleeson. One is someone's side yard. The others are off on the side of the road. The jail has been restored, reclaimed or whatever you want to call it. It does not look the same anymore. You'll see what I'm talking about. I don't know if they charge you to go in or not. As for the other buildings, we walked all around them and in them except for the general store (it's chained up) and took pictures. If you go through Tombstone to get there from Gleeson Rd. you have to stop at the Rattlesnake Crafts place. It looks creepy in a "The Hills Have Eyes" kinda way, but it's really cool. Lots of weird, interesting stuff that's been collected from all over.
I was also looking at an old ghost town book that I got at a junk store and there was a section on Gleeson. The picture was old and it looked like the general store in Gleeson used to be much bigger than it is now.

BEARS TOYS
06-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Goat i feel the same way you do been here 30 plus years.............................BEAR

toto151
06-13-2009, 07:27 PM
I will be coming from Tombstone and will stop and check out that place.
The last time i was there the saloon was opened and an old miner lived there and had mined coal from the now ghost town of Thurber Tx. I at the time lived 8 miles from there and had something in common with him. After talking for a while i was able to get permission to check out some of the mine dumps. It would be nice to get to do that again.