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LauraA
08-23-2006, 01:22 PM
We took a ride yesterday up Route 288, known as The Desert to the Tall Pines Scenic Highway. It goes from Route 188 near Roosevelt all the way to a small town called Young. Young was the home of The Pleasant Valley Wars, a bloody family feud between the Grahams and the Tewksburys in the late 1800s, but I digress, that's a whole other topic. :o
I'm trying to find information about a once thriving large asbestos mine located off Route 288, between Asbestos Point and Zimmerman Point in the Sierra Anchas. We've driven up the road which used to be the main road to the mine, but it's closed to vehicle through traffic and has become a hiking trail since it's located in a designated wilderness area. The back road we've heard it still accessible by Jeep, but it'll take summoning up some courage to try it, it's a very steep, very high "edgy" climb. We're trying to find out before we make the climb, if it's worth the trip. We've heard that there are a lot of buildings left standing and looking through binoculars, we think we can make out what appears to be some structures.
I can't seem to find out the name of the mine through regular searching. The locals call it Angel Wings, because the white sludge dumped over the side of the mountain looks like a large set of angel's wings, a landmark that can be seen from miles away.
Does anyone have any information or can you suggest a resource? AZ Dept of Mines and Minerals needs more information from me before they can look it up because evidently there are several asbestos claims in that same area. I told them I'm looking for "the BIG one," they laughed and said they need more to go on.


View of Asbestos Mine taken from Hwy 288. "Angel Wings"
382

LauraA
08-25-2006, 09:34 AM
:D Well, I guess I can post a reply to myself. AZ Dept of Mines and Minerals was able to figure out after a bit of badgering from me, that the mine I'm looking for is actually a series of claims called Zimmerman Asbestos Points, Asbestos Peak Property Claim and The American Ore claim. AZDMM wasn't able to tell me if there is any access to the site, I suspect since it's an asbestos site, access might be restricted. I'll check further with the local rangers. We stopped by the ranger station today but it seems anyone who would know is out on fire patrol until next week.
If anyone's ever heard of these Asbestos mines,or has any information, please post.
Thanks!


Footnote:
I found this tidbit interesting. The areas near the asbestos mines in the Sierra Anchas also used to be heavily mined for uranium. We were told that the areas around Workman Creek and McFadden Peak are regularly monitored for radioactivity and that camping is these areas is restricted depending on the Geiger Counter readings. Glow in the dark campers?! :eek:

GaryB
08-25-2006, 02:09 PM
We were told that the areas around Workman Creek and McFadden Peak are regularly monitored for radioactivity and that camping is these areas is restricted depending on the Geiger Counter readings. Glow in the dark campers?! :eek:

Saves on using lanterns.


And you know when you start posting to yourself, we have to take you out back and shoot you right? They say that's the first sign of mad cow disease. Or was it hoof and mouth? I forget, but we have to be safe you know ;)

I have USGS maps of A-ree-zon-i-a, I 'll look around and see if I can find anything usefull. What county and closest town would these places be by for reference? You can PM me if you want to keep them secretive, but I refuse to learn anymore secret handshakes.

LauraA
08-25-2006, 03:00 PM
Saves on using lanterns.


And you know when you start posting to yourself, we have to take you out back and shoot you right? They say that's the first sign of mad cow disease. Or was it hoof and mouth? I forget, but we have to be safe you know ;)

I have USGS maps of A-ree-zon-i-a, I 'll look around and see if I can find anything usefull. What county and closest town would these places be by for reference? You can PM me if you want to keep them secretive, but I refuse to learn anymore secret handshakes.

In my case, it's probably foot in mouth disease (I've been known to insert foot mouth and chomp vigorously) :o
There's nothing secretive about the area, it probably glows in the dark at night. The areas in question are located off Rt 288, 25ish miles from Roosevelt, on the road to Young. Gila County. On maps that I've got, it shows it all in the vicinity of the Sierra Ancha Experimental Forest. No clue as to what the "experiment" is...glowing campers? 20 ft Jack Rabbits?


(the secret handshake involves standing on one foot with two thumbs up and a neener neener) :p

GaryB
08-25-2006, 03:44 PM
Okay, I found Asbestos Point and Zimmerman Point. The road you said that you went up that is closed for hiking, was that from the front side facing North East, going up what is called Walnut Creek? Coming from SR288? Or was it FS 189 heading to Coon Creek Butte?

If so, then I found the back road you mentioned, listed as FS 489. It seems to follow what is called Pocket Creek up in between the 2 points. Using Topo 3D, I can kind of make out the canyon that the "Angel Wings" lie in.

Am I close :confused:

GaryB
08-25-2006, 03:56 PM
Look familiar?


http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=33.76037&lon=-110.94402&datum=nad83&u=7&layer=DRG&size=l&s=24

GaryB
08-25-2006, 05:00 PM
Here's the "Angel Wings" seen from space, not much good for seeing buildings though.



http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&Z=12&X=2524&Y=18678&W=1&qs=%7croosevelt%7carizona%7c

GaryB
08-25-2006, 05:08 PM
If you flip between the topo and aerial view, you can slightly make out the road to it. Doesn't look too bad, but I might have a higher pucker factor than you ;)


If you want, I can get coordinates (GPS) or try to give you a rough estimate for mileage by using my software, let me know.

GaryB
08-25-2006, 05:25 PM
I tried every aerial program I know of (Nasa, Google, Globe, etc) and they won't zoom closer than the Terraserver image (probably because they all use the same images), so I can't help with building pictures :(

LauraA
08-25-2006, 05:33 PM
Okay, I found Asbestos Point and Zimmerman Point. The road you said that you went up that is closed for hiking, was that from the front side facing North East, going up what is called Walnut Creek? Coming from SR288? Or was it FS 189 heading to Coon Creek Butte?

If so, then I found the back road you mentioned, listed as FS 489. It seems to follow what is called Pocket Creek up in between the 2 points. Using Topo 3D, I can kind of make out the canyon that the "Angel Wings" lie in.

Am I close :confused:

You're right on the money! The road heading up before "Angel Wings" from 288 is the one closed for motorized vehicles, hikers are permitted. The second one is the one that should get us there, I believe that's the one heads between the two points. (489?) If you look closely at the satellite image of Angel Wings, above and a bit to the right of the wing on the right, you can barely make out what we believe are a group of several buildings on the road that runs above Angel Wings. That's also the area we saw with binoculars that looked like buildings.**
That'll be a future goal...the pucker factor up that way, I'd rate as a 10 (10 being the grip the seat and sweat with eyes closed while muttering, "I don't wanna die, I don't wanna die") and then there's the trip back down. :eek: Why is it these places are in the remotest locations imaginable?
Thanks so much Gary, you've given us something to go on, now we know what to expect!

fear is not a factor, fear is not a factor, fear is not a factor :eek:

**Turns out they aren't buildings, only sunlight shining off asbestos veins.

LauraA
08-25-2006, 05:47 PM
Gary, this is where we think the buildings are. Satellite image supports what we saw through binoculars.**


383



385

**
turns out NOT to be buildings, this is the area where the adits are located

GaryB
08-25-2006, 05:51 PM
I did find the trail head is called Oak Creek, and the actual canyon that the "wings" drop into is called First Water Canyon.

Anyway, looking at the NASA pictures, it looks like the worst part is the mine itself. The approach from the back seems decent, but you drop over the top and the mine is set up on the face, like a cliff setting.

The image below is looking straight down from space. That's from using NASA Worldwind. It's an incredible (also free) program, but you have to have a serious internet connection and a fast PC for it to work right.

GaryB
08-25-2006, 05:56 PM
Have fun looking and take pictures. No problem about the help, just send me an address to send my bill to :D

Actually it helped me to refresh my noggin' on how to use a few programs I don't use much, but really should use more often. With the NASA program, I can pick out hiking trails in nearby Red Rock Canyon and tell what kind of vehicles are on the freeway :eek:

LauraA
08-25-2006, 05:59 PM
Awesome! I wish I could use some of those programs, but we're connecting to the internet using two juice cans and a string.
The check is in the mail ;) ...THANK YOU!! :)

tucson_tumbleweed
08-25-2006, 07:42 PM
:D Well, I guess I can post a reply to myself. AZ Dept of Mines and Minerals was able to figure out after a bit of badgering from me, that the mine I'm looking for is actually a series of claims called Zimmerman Asbestos Points, Asbestos Peak Property Claim and The American Ore claim. There are several buildings intact, however, AZDMM wasn't able to tell me if there is any access to the site, I suspect since it's an asbestos site, access might be restricted. I'll check further with the local rangers. We stopped by the ranger station today but it seems anyone who would know is out on fire patrol until next week.
If anyone's ever heard of these Asbestos mines,or has any information, please post.
Thanks!


Footnote:
I found this tidbit interesting. The areas near the asbestos mines in the Sierra Anchas also used to be heavily mined for uranium. We were told that the areas around Workman Creek and McFadden Peak are regularly monitored for radioactivity and that camping is these areas is restricted depending on the Geiger Counter readings. Glow in the dark campers?! :eek:

Don't worry too much about asbestos. The health danger is blown way out of porportion.

I used to have a job where sold and installed asbestos insulation for new homes. I did it on and off for 7 years and suffered no ill effects whatsoever.

I think the whole asbestos controversy is a huge crock of ****.

LauraA
08-27-2006, 09:02 AM
Don't worry too much about asbestos. The health danger is blown way out of porportion.

I used to have a job where sold and installed asbestos insulation for new homes. I did it on and off for 7 years and suffered no ill effects whatsoever.

I think the whole asbestos controversy is a huge crock of ****.


At Risk Jobs and Locations

"It is inhalation of asbestos fibers which can cause mesothelioma or asbestos lung cancer. Even low exposure levels of the tiny fibers or asbestos dust are very dangerous. After the 1980's workplace exposure to asbestos became more rare, but it can take up to 40 years for signs of mesothelioma asbestos lung cancer are noticed."



*Source:
Asbestos jobs can expose family members to asbestos lung cancer risks (http://www.mesothelioma-lung-cancer.org/risk-jobs.html)

*I wouldn't want to work in that environment, but I think it's probably safe enough for brief exploration.

NWNative
08-27-2006, 10:57 AM
2 juice cans??? Well there's your problem - you chould be using BEAN cans.

That NASA program looks great. I'm going to see if it'll help me find my lost GT! Thanks!

GaryB
08-27-2006, 12:00 PM
http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/

GaryB
08-27-2006, 12:05 PM
I kind of agree about the asbestos issue. It's kind of like the lead paint issue. If you are exposed to the dust for a measureable amount, then I'd worry.

Pnx Jay
09-11-2006, 08:58 PM
Did you ever get around to gettin' there? I did a little googling and found this news letter from a local family oriented offroad club that mentions the trail (489) and mining site. Its from June of 03. Unfortunately I don't see any reference to buildings, but the mines weren't the topic of the letter anyway.

www.azlorangers.org/newsletter/newsletters/JuneTrailTales.pdf (http://forums.ghosttowns.com/www.azlorangers.org/newsletter/newsletters/JuneTrailTales.pdf)

I'm waiting for a part for the Scout ( :rolleyes: never said that before ;);)) . If'n I get it back together and tested for the weekend, I may just have to give it a try. Its not to far and it should be cooler up in the mountains. I hope the rust gods give my bucket the strength! Laura, could you use your charm to make sure they grade 288? The last time I headed up there it was washboard city. Bumps, dips, ditches, and whoopdedos I can handle, but me and washboard don't mix.

Jay

Edit: Apparently that link won't work go to 'www.azlorangers.org' , then to newsletter archives and June of 03. Someday I'll figure this forum format out.

GaryB
09-11-2006, 09:06 PM
Jay, whatcha' waiting for?

Pnx Jay
09-11-2006, 09:17 PM
I spun a front wheel bearing in the hub for the second time on the same hub. First time I peened the bearing seat and used lock tight as recommended on the BB and by my then boss. It didn't hold. On the way home from the Yavapai cemetary I mentioned before I noticed it was handling like the steering was made of rubber (OK, worse than usual). It didn't take too much to notice my new alignment :rolleyes:. I have a new bearing hub (CJs use the same one :D) and new Timken bearings coming. Spindle looked OK. That should take care of this for good. Of course the other side has seen the same life, how long before that side goes? Bets anyone??

Jay

GaryB
09-11-2006, 11:15 PM
Got you beat. PO put/had new rotors and bearings installed. When I got it and went through it the first time, I noticed the lock nut was way loose from spec. Everything looked good and was tight though and I put it back together right. The right front bearings locked up on me on the freeway one morning going to work a month later :eek: New bearings in the front and she's been peachy so far. And I've been to some places ;)

Never knew spinning the bearings was an issue for those hubs. Guess I've been lucky.

LauraA
09-12-2006, 04:04 AM
Crapola another failed attempt...oops, 's'cuz my French... we decided to make the trip yesterday morning up to Angel Wings and only got about a quarter of a mile up when the road became impassable (at least for our old-peeps-mostly-stock Jeep) Since the rains, the road has a load of washouts, but I think a lifted, locked 4x could make it. (we're hoping to get some Warn skids put on the Jeep next week....can't hurt!)
288 is in great shape all the way to Young. Not too many washboards. As a matter of fact, the road crew was working on it yesterday. ( must have been my charm that did it ;) )
Jay, if you get your junk fixed and want company, give us a holler, maybe you can blaze the trail and we'll follow (got a tow strap and winch and maybe even a barf bag? :eek: )
Cherry Creek is supposed to be a nice run too, it goes from the lower (Roosevelt end) of 288 all the way through to Young, skirting the Sierra Ancha Wilderness. It might be bit rough as well since the rains, but that's another trip we want to make sometime soon.
The picture below is the remains of some structure at the beginning of the road up to the Asbestos Mine, no clue what it was. We turned around just past this point. ::::sigh:::::



416

tucson_tumbleweed
09-12-2006, 04:18 AM
Crapola another failed attempt...oops, 's'cuz my French... we decided to make the trip yesterday morning up to Angel Wings and only got about a quarter of a mile up when the road became impassable (at least for our old-peeps-mostly-stock Jeep) Since the rains, the road has a load of washouts, but I think a lifted, locked 4x could make it.
288 is in great shape all the way to Young. Not too many washboards. As a matter of fact, the road crew was working on it yesterday. ( must have been my charm that did it ;) )
Jay, if you get your junk fixed and want company, give us a holler, maybe you can blaze the trail and we'll follow (got a tow strap and winch and maybe even a barf bag? :eek: )
Cherry Creek is supposed to be a nice run too, it goes from the lower (Roosevelt end) of 288 all the way through to Young, skirting the Sierra Ancha Wilderness. It might be bit rough as well since the rains, but that's another trip we want to make sometime soon.
The picture below is the remains of some structure at the beginning of the road up to the Asbestos Mine, no clue what it was. We turned around just past this point. ::::sigh:::::




416


It looks like a sacrificial altar to me. Any blood stains?

LauraA
09-12-2006, 04:22 AM
It looks like a sacrificial altar to me. Any blood stains?

.... not YET :D

Ghostdancer
09-26-2006, 05:31 AM
At the south end of Salt River Canyon just west of the highway is an abandoned mine. I believe I was told that this was an asbestos mine, but unsure. Maybe someone here has more info?


Tom

LauraA
09-26-2006, 02:55 PM
There's an old mine built into the side of the mountain overlooking Salt River Canyon just off the 60/77, it's on the west side on Apache land, is that the one you're talking about? I don't know the name of it, but my understanding, it was begun as a copper mine then fizzled. They later mined some turquoise there. I can't imagine how they got to it, maybe at the time there was a wooden bridge or something. Now it's just a hole in the mountain with some sort of wooden frame around the opening.

Ghostdancer
09-26-2006, 08:09 PM
There's an old mine built into the side of the mountain overlooking Salt River Canyon just off the 60/77, it's on the west side on Apache land, is that the one you're talking about? I don't know the name of it, but my understanding, it was begun as a copper mine then fizzled. They later mined some turquoise there. I can't imagine how they got to it, maybe at the time there was a wooden bridge or something. Now it's just a hole in the mountain with some sort of wooden frame around the opening.

Yes, that's the one. As the highway turns west heading to Globe there's a road with a locked gate going north from the highway which I believe goes to this mine.


Tom

LauraA
09-26-2006, 08:23 PM
Yes, the road behind the locked gate leads to the edge of the cliff where the mine is. It's way too high for me to even comprehend exploring, and the Apaches don't usually allow exploration anyway. I once begged, pleaded and cajoled to try to get up to the peridot plateau in Peridot, but they wouldn't even let us go up there to take pictures. Have you ever had any success exploring old Apache mining sites?

Ghostdancer
09-26-2006, 08:43 PM
Yes, the road behind the locked gate leads to the edge of the cliff where the mine is. It's way too high for me to even comprehend exploring, and the Apaches don't usually allow exploration anyway. I once begged, pleaded and cajoled to try to get up to the peridot plateau in Peridot, but they wouldn't even let us go up there to take pictures. Have you ever had any success exploring old Apache mining sites?

No, never been to any old mines on the reservation.


Tom

LauraA
09-30-2006, 04:56 PM
We did it...We got our wings today! Finally we were able to reach the top of Asbestos Point, better known locally as Angel Wings. What a fabulous place! The views were not for the faint of heart, neither was the tippy, rocky road leading up to the top. It's about a three mile Jeep climb to the top of the mountain (elevation 6,662 ft.) from Route 288 above Roosevelt through cool shady pine forests. Our new neighbors, who had been there before were kind enough to lead the way in their Jeep. Thanks Larry & Jean!
There are several adits, most in pretty good condition and had it not been snake season, we probably would have ventured inside at least one of them. Standing at one of the entrances we could feel the cool air coming from inside the labyrinth.
Asbestos in its raw form is a beautiful mineral, it glistens in the sunlight, Mother Nature sure knows how to create a jewel. There weren't any structures left standing, mostly collapsed unidentifiable ruins, although we understand there are several more structures scattered around in the surrounding woods. Now when we look up at Angel Wings from our home in Roosevelt, we can say we've been there. These pictures are mostly scenic, but you can get an idea what kind of operation it was and the daily risks these miners took to get the job done. (you sure didn't step back very far to admire your work) They must have been some very hardy folks.


The remains of a crane
Roosevelt Lake can be seen in the upper right
461


Asbestos Adit
462


This adit had several tunnels leading off into different directions
463


This is one of the "Angel Wings" shown in previous posts in this thread, seen from the top
464

LauraA
09-30-2006, 05:09 PM
View from the top
465
Evidentially there was also a WPA fish hatchery in this area, this stocking shack and some stone pools are all that remains
466
More view from the top
467
Some sample mining done in the area
468

Kelly
09-30-2006, 05:27 PM
Cool pics,:)
Thanks,

brian10x
09-30-2006, 06:44 PM
View from the top

465
Evidentially there was also a WPA fish hatchery in this area, this stocking shack and some stone pools are all that remains
466
More view from the top
467
Some sample mining done in the area

468

Great pictures, Laura!

The crane is my favorite. I love mechanical remnants best. It must have taken nearly superhuman effort to get it up there.

Where there any signs of processing, like a mill?

LauraA
09-30-2006, 07:10 PM
Great pictures, Laura!

The crane is my favorite. I love mechanical remnants best. It must have taken nearly superhuman effort to get it up there.

Where there any signs of processing, like a mill?


The processing mill was located in Globe. It served several asbestos mines in the area. From what I understand the mills weren't operated like a stamp mill. There was some sort of process to remove the asbestos fibers from the raw ore, I'm still checking to see how it was done.
Getting the crane up there would have been a real project, but it was on tracks like a bulldozer the boom/arm would have been taken up in sections. We wondered how trucks could go back and forth on the really rough, very narrow road, I'll bet a few were lost along the way. Most of the road is bordered by steep ravines and plunging cliffs, scary in a Jeep, petrifying in a truck. :eek:

Pnx Jay
09-30-2006, 07:36 PM
Especially mega ton trucks that had brakes less efficient than your Jeep! Glad to see you made it. I was kinda hoping to beat you there, but between my old junk and that darned work always getting in the way.........Only 30 more years and I can spend my retirement using my old 2015 International Hovertruck (I never buy new! :p) to search far out uninhabited ghost towns like Punkin Center and Young :D:D.
Jay

LauraA
10-01-2006, 03:04 AM
LOL! You young whippersnapper! :D I'm glad you didn't include Roosevelt in your predictions.
I'll still be haunting these locations in 30 years...maybe just in spirit, but I'll be there.:p
Seriously Jay, when you get your junk fixed, you'd enjoy the run, there's some rock fair crawling.
You probably can't tell much about the road in this picture, I should have taken more pics of the climb, but some of the time I had my eyes closed, the rest of the time, I was just holding on tight and sweating. :eek::o


469

dadbruns
02-20-2007, 11:42 AM
The road that goes up is the one after you top out on the first mesas - and - is right in the very first sharp left turn of the highway (easy to find - really). The last time I went up there was a boulder in the road that had to be pushed out of the way. Road was ok in all. There was only one remains of a cabin but very interesting mine works, The last one down has a door on it and inside a large living area. There was an old piece of machinery there as well and the view is spectacular. I have been around and worked in asbestos mines all my life and still going. Well worth the drive!