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brian10x
09-29-2006, 04:05 PM
Old Glory mine!

brian10x
09-29-2006, 04:08 PM
Trail? What trail? This is a good part. A lot of the trail was in completely invisible covered in high weeds.

brian10x
09-29-2006, 04:10 PM
How high and thick were the weeds?

brian10x
09-29-2006, 04:12 PM
Here are some additional pictures of the main building.

brian10x
09-29-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm not forgetting about you paranormal fans out there. I know its a trick of the light, but in my heart I wish a blue orb was really something.

LauraA
09-29-2006, 05:55 PM
Hooray! Good going, nice pictures!
Did you find the mine itself amidst all those radiator clogging weeds? Did you metal detect? (don't forget 60/40) :D It looks like it was quite a settlement.


Old Glory Mine, Old Glory Mine group, Ruby, Oro Blanco District (Ruby District), Oro Blanco Mts, Santa Cruz Co., Arizona, USA (http://www.mindat.org/loc-52455.html)

brian10x
09-29-2006, 06:17 PM
Laura,
It was so badly overgrown that I was covered from chest to toe with stickers from the weeds.

Frankly, I was concerned with falling through a weed covered hole.

I'm not sure if that was the stamp mill,or it was elswhere. I'm sure there were treasures under the weeds, but between the heat, the bugs, and the stickers inside my shirt, I was getting aggravated.

I took a trail up the hill from the mine, were the graveyard is supposed to be, found the remains of one other building, but the trail, by then had deteriorated far, far beyond my comfort level. Between getting more narrow, rockier (think Bluebird rockier), with almost zero visability through the weeds, and I had enough. I was lucky up to that point, and something told me not to push on any further.

Thaks for the link. If I return and find any metamorphosed grits of probable Cretaceous age,
I'll split 60/40with you.

Personally, I prefer french fries.

here's a picture of the second building:

brian10x
09-29-2006, 06:20 PM
I didn't see the picture. I'll try again:

LauraA
09-29-2006, 06:30 PM
hmmm 60/40 your generosity overwhelms me "metamorphosed grits of probable Cretaceous age" maybe with a little butter they'd be edible? :p
There's no telling what goodies were hidden by the weeds.
Here's a small reference to the stamp mill.



Google Earth Community: Ghost Towns Collection-------------Cherry AZ (http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/337279/page/vc/vc/1)

brian10x
09-29-2006, 07:02 PM
hmmm 60/40 your generosity overwhelms me "metamorphosed grits of probable Cretaceous age" maybe with a little butter they'd be edible? :p
There's no telling what goodies were hidden by the weeds.
Here's a small reference to the stamp mill.




Google Earth Community: Ghost Towns Collection-------------Cherry AZ (http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/337279/page/vc/vc/1)

Thanks, but that was taken word for word from "Ghost town of the month" site.

Jeez, you know, I appreciate all the feedback, but I was hoping to get a few more comments from the general public, this being a "ghost town" forum and all.

Maybe Bob was right, and this forum is dying.

widleewidleewaa
09-29-2006, 07:08 PM
Thats pretty cool, it must be pretty remote. I dont see any beer cans like the places Ive gone to.


Hooray! Good going, nice pictures!
Did you find the mine itself amidst all those radiator clogging weeds? Did you metal detect? (


Is it legal to detect in places like that?. Although I dont see anyone catching you way out there.;)

brian10x
09-29-2006, 07:16 PM
Thats pretty cool, it must be pretty remote. I dont see any beer cans like the places Ive gone to.



Is it legal to detect in places like that?. Although I dont see anyone catching you way out there.;)
Thanks for commenting.
I saw a beer or two, and a water bottle (sigh) but not many.

I don't think its legal to metal detect at sites like this, but I had mine with me, and I doubt anyone would have known.

Maybe when the weather gets cooler if I get a volunteer for back up, I'll go again. There's more to see north of the mill, I was just afraid to go where the trail was completely overrun with weeds and the drop off would mean certain death.

Someone went to a LOT of trouble up there, stamp mills are big and heavy, and there is a very well built dam that you pass (see picture) as you go up the trail.

I'm hoping that means they left a lot of goodies behind for me to find.

brian10x
09-29-2006, 07:18 PM
An alternate shot of the dam.

brian10x
09-29-2006, 07:41 PM
Did I mention the road was BUMPY?

widleewidleewaa
09-29-2006, 08:05 PM
Thanks for commenting.
I saw a beer or two, and a water bottle (sigh) but not many.



I went to Gillete and tip top last weekend, those places are covered in trash now. Im going back this weekend to take more pictures, before its all trashed.

NWNative
09-29-2006, 08:27 PM
Give it a chance! You only posted four hours ago. I go hours at a time without checking 'cause there's no new posts!

Nice find! I wish I could find something like that close to home. No such luck in the NW. Maybe a trip to Arizona is in order? Hmmm. . . winter's coming.

I wonder if the cemetery was up the road or just gone.

brian10x
09-29-2006, 08:59 PM
Give it a chance! You only posted four hours ago. I go hours at a time without checking 'cause there's no new posts!

Nice find! I wish I could find something like that close to home. No such luck in the NW. Maybe a trip to Arizona is in order? Hmmm. . . winter's coming.

I wonder if the cemetery was up the road or just gone.
Thanks for the kind words-I'll try to be more patient.

Yes, from what I've read, the cemetary is up further.

I'm trying to figure out what these old mills looked like when they were active. This one had two large rooms, and outside, a series of troughs-see pictures.

It seems logical that the mine would be up higher, to make transporting the ore easier. I've also read Old Glory was used to process ore from several other mines in that area.

There's definately more to see there!

High Desert Drifter
10-01-2006, 12:34 PM
Brian,

I'm happy for you! I too have experienced some odd luck trying to reach
a site in Nevada after 3 failed attempts. I know you are stoked right
now. I shall toast my next extra large cherry slurpee to your success!

brian10x
10-01-2006, 01:17 PM
Brian,

I'm happy for you! I too have experienced some odd luck trying to reach
a site in Nevada after 3 failed attempts. I know you are stoked right
now. I shall toast my next extra large cherry slurpee to your success!
Just so you know, since you've started posting about slurpees, my consumption has increased 100%.

Sometimes you just don't think about something until someone goes ahead and mentions it.

As far as having to make several attempts, if it were down here, I'd help you in person. I'm getting real good at overcoming failure.

What kinds of problems are you having? With me, its usually the maps are wrong. The instuctions to find Old Glory CLEARLY stated take FSR 4191, but in reality it was FSR 4162. Now, how do you suppose a mistake that huge is made?

Never give up, though. It makes the find all the sweeter. I actually danced a little jig in the first picture I was so happy!:eek:

LauraA
10-01-2006, 01:40 PM
Here's some information on the legalities pertaining to metal detecting.


Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting Law Guide (http://www.treasurefish.com/government.htm)

Kelly
10-01-2006, 04:15 PM
More info on metal detecting on forest lands.

PETER W. KARP Forest SupervisorUT

METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL FORESTS

United States Department of Agriculture

Uinta National Forest
88 West l00 North
P.O. mx 1428
Provo, Utah 84603
801-342-5100

File Code: 2360

Date: August l0, 2005


Mr. James Foley
National Land Rights League
P.O. Box 1818
La Pine, OR 97739

Dear Mr. Foley:

This letter is in response to your March 27, 2005 email to the USDA.gov Feedback inbox regarding information posted on the Uinta National Forest website about the legality of using metal detectors on National Forest lands. Your email correctly pointed out that metal detecting is a legitimate means of prospecting for gold or other mineral specimens under the 1872 Mining Law. Like other locatable mineral prospecting activities, use of a metal detector in this manner is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 228A regulations. Enclosed for your information is an internal information paper entitled “Metal Detecting on the National Forests” that discusses the general requirements for using metal detectors for both prospecting and recreational purposes.

The statements on the Uinta website reflect requirements for the recreational use of metal detectors and the concerns for protecting archaeological resources on the Uinta National Forest, We are aware of the statutory right to prospect on National Forest System lands under the l872 Mining Law and have updated our webpage to reflect the legitimacy of using a metal detector for that purpose. We apologize for any confusion caused by the omission of a reference to the Mining Law.

Thank you for helping us to make our website clearer for persons such as your self who are interested in the use of metal detectors for prospecting on National Forest lands.

Sincerely,


PETER W. KARP
Forest Supervisor

Enclosure

cc Jack Troyer, R4 -- . Regional Forester


METAL DETECTING ON THE NATIONAL PORESTS

Metal detecting is a legitimate means of locating gold or other mineral specimens and can be an effective prospecting tool for locating larger mineral deposits. This activity can also be conducted as a recreational activity locating lost coins, jewelry or other incidental metallic items of no historical value. Prospecting using a metal detector can be conducted under the General Mining Laws and is covered under the Forest Service 36 CFR 22~A locatable mineral regulations for lands open to mineral entry. Metal detecting for treasure trove or lost items such as coins and jewelry is managed as a non minerals-related recreation activity. It is Forest Service policy that the casual collection of rocks and mineral samples is allowed on the National Forests.

Prospecting using metal detectors is a low surface impact activity that involves digging small holes rarely more than six inches deep. Normally, prospecting with a metal detector does not require a notice of intent or written authorization since it only involves searching for and occasionally removing small rock samples or mineral specimens (36 CFR 228 .4(a)).

Metal detectors may be used on public land in areas that do not contain or would not reasonably he expected to contain archaeological or historical resources. Normally, developed campgrounds, swimming beaches, and other developed recreation sites are open to recreational metal detecting unless there arc archaeological or historical resources present. In such cases, forest supervisors are authorized to close the area to metal detecting and the closure would he posted at the site. Such closure notices are not always practical in undeveloped areas, and federal agencies have not identified every archaeological site on public lands. It is possible therefore, that you may encounter such archaeological remains that have not yet been documented or an area that is not closed even though it does indeed contain such remains. Archaeological remains on public land arc protected under law. If you were to discover such remains, you should leave them undisturbed and notify a Forest Service office.

The purpose of the restrictions to metal detecting on public lands is to protect historical remains. The Code of Federal Regulations, (36 CFR 261.9) states, “The Following are prohibited: (g) Digging in, excavating, disturbing, injuring, destroying, or in any way damaging any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, or property. (h) Removing any prehistoric, historic, or archaeological resources, structure, site, artifact, property.” The Archaeological Resources Protection Act (ARPA, 16 U.S.C. 470cc:smile: also prohibits these activities, stating, “No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface or attempt to excavate, remove, damage or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resources located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity a pursuant to a permit...” ARPA exempts the collection of coins for personal use if the coins are not in an archaeological context. in some cases, historically significant coins and other metallic artifacts may be part of an historical-period archaeological site, in which case they would he considered archaeological resources and arc protected under law. These laws apply to all National Forest System land and do not vary from state to state.
Four forms of metal detector use are recognized.

I. Searching for treasure trove: Treasure trove is defined as money, gems, or precious metals in the form of coin, plate, or bullion that has been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovering it later. This activity requires a Special Use Permit under The Act of June 4, 1897 (16 U.S.C. 551). Forest Service Manual 2724.4 states “allow persons to search for buried treasure on National Forest System lands, but protect the rights of the public regarding ownership of, or claims on, any recovered property.


2. Prospecting: Using a metal detector to locate gold or other mineral deposits is an allowed activity under the General Mining laws and is subject to the 36 CFR 228A regulations, A Notice of Intent (36 CFR 228.4(a)) is normally not required for prospecting using a metal detector. A Notice of Intent (NOl) is required for any prospecting which might cause disturbance of surface resources. A plan of operation is required for any prospecting that will likely cause significant disturbance of surface resources. Normal metal detecting does not cause surface impacts that require either a NOI or a Plan of Operation. People who use metal detectors for prospecting should bear in mind that many of the mineralized lands within the National Forests and open to mineral entry have been “claimed” by others who have sole right to prospect and develop the mineral resources found on the mining claim. A search of County and Bureau of Land Management records should he made prior to prospecting to determine if an area has been claimed.

Normally, any gold found can he removed and kept. Lf the removal of the gold, rocks, or minerals might cause disturbance of surface resources, beyond digging a small shallow hole, an NOI may be required.

3. Searchjng for historic or prehistoric artifacts: Using a metal detector to locate archaeological or historical remains is subject to the Antiquities Act of 1906 and the Archeological Resources Protection Act of 1979 (ARPA) as amended and requires a special use permit. Such permits are granted for scientific research only, however, there are many ways to get involved with organized, scientific research. See below for ways to use metal detectors for this purpose under sanctioned public archaeology programs.

4. Recreational pursuits: The most common form of metal detector use is searching for lost coins, jewelry, and incidental metal items having no historical value. Such use is common in developed campgrounds, swimming areas, and picnic areas and requires no permit. However, one must assume personal responsibility to notice if the area may indeed contain archaeological or historical resources and if it does, cease metal detecting and notify a Forest Service office. Not doing so may result in prosecution under the Code of Federal Regulations or ARPA.

Metal detecting in the National Forests is recognized as a legitimate prospecting method under the General Mining Laws and also as a recreational activity for the casual collection of rocks and minerals. This policy does not permit the use of metal detectors in or around known or undiscovered cultural or historic sites in order to protect our valuable, non-renewable historical resources. However, recognizing the universal interest in archaeology and history and the vast public knowledge of such resources, the USDA Forest Service sponsors a public archaeology program through which metal detector enthusiasts and others can help. Passport In Time (PIT) is a national program inviting the public to work with agency archaeologists on historic preservation projects. We have done numerous projects through PIT in cooperation with metal detecting clubs and individuals. The cooperation has been beneficial for both the detectorists and agency’s archaeologists. Locating archaeological sites becomes a joint endeavor and we learn a great deal. If you would like more information on this program, call 1-800-281-9176 or visit http://www.oasstjortintime.com (http://www.oasstjortintime.com/)

LauraA
10-01-2006, 05:03 PM
It sounds pretty clear until you reread it. Metal detecting for gold is ok as long as it fits into the parameters set in place by the 1872 mining law as long as it doesn't make big holes in the ground. The problem I have is what they're calling "archaeological resources" is that defined as items found that are over 50 years old?
If I find Bessie Mae Bootlegger's diamond brooch that she lost in 1900 in the dump near her cabin while making hooch in the Sierra Anchas, is it legal to keep it? Is her dump considered an "archaeological resource?"

widleewidleewaa
10-01-2006, 05:41 PM
This is from the BLM website:

"Indian and Other Historical Artifacts: You may not collect any artifacts, ancient or historical, on public lands without a permit. This includes arrow heads or flakes, pottery or potsherds, mats, rock art, old bottles or pieces of equipment and buildings. These items are part of our national heritage and scientists are still learning much from them. Human burial remains on both public and private land are protected by federal and state law from being collected."


This is also on the BLM site:

"Rockhounding is the collection of reasonable amounts (http://www.blm.gov/az/rockhounding/limits.htm#reasonable) of mineral specimens, rocks, semi-precious gems, petrified wood and invertebrate fossils. Invertebrate fossils are the remains of animals that didn't have bones such as shellfish, corals, trilobites and crinoids. The material collected must not be sold or bartered. Arizona has many localities and varieties of collecting material. Not all varieties are found on public lands.
It is a good idea to check land ownership when planning a rockhounding trip. A good place to begin is the local BLM office. If you can point to a location on a topographical map (available at BLM) we can determine if the site is on public lands.
In most instances, public lands are open to rockhounding although no collecting in allowed in National Monuments. BLM can help you make this determination."

In my experience the forest service is pretty reasonable about it, but the BLM are a bunch of ***holes.

LauraA
10-01-2006, 07:50 PM
awwww that means I'll have to return the skeleton collection that's hanging in my closet...darnit :rolleyes:

GaryB
10-01-2006, 08:44 PM
As far as personal detecting:

I've been told that if the site is of historical value and on g'ment land, say a ghost town or similar, it's not legal; as it should be covered by the Antiquities Act. Then again I have been told that is okay as long as you do not remove items or disturb the land much.

I think it really comes down to who, what and when. If you are out and about and doing minor digging (say with a trowel) on a site that is not clearly posted as protected, or along the road into or the area around it, you might be okay. As long as the authorities of that area are okay with it, that day or hour. I've dealt with some pretty lax BLM and FS officials, and I've dealt with some that felt they were really important and liked to express their power of authority, even when it wasn't necessary.

The irony is that the BLM and NFS can go in and "reclaim" an abandoned mine site, yet you can't go in and search the same site before it's reclaimed as it's "protected" :rolleyes: