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Gravelrash
10-06-2007, 07:48 PM
Hi guys.
I've been looking on all the older posts about Panamint/Ballarat, trying to solve a site location problem, but to no avail.
I only have GoogleEarth pictures of the area and I've come to understand that some of the GE location markers/info can be miles off and is often incorrect.
Anyway, 9 miles north of Panamint, on GE, there are some photos of some old charcoal kilns on Mahogany Flat Rd, (just to locate us). You probably all know those kilns?
Continuing to the end of Mahogany Flat Rd you come to the crest of a peak and there is a small collection of buildings there.
I am wondering what these might be?
Telescope Peak is posted by GE 3.32 miles further south. That GE marker is a higher peak, so I am assuming that is the correct location of Telescope Peak?
Could "my" buildings be a weather station? I noticed one earlier Panamint thread had some arial photos posted by a guy who was involved in weather station maintainance, so it's a possibility.
Anyone been up there? Cold? Access good? 2WD ok?
Thanks for any input.

mainmanwalkin
10-06-2007, 08:43 PM
This may only be a slight help, but Google Earth suggests to people posting Panoramio photos that they mark them at the town but not directly over the subject matter. This may be why the markers you're looking at seem out of place.

Gravelrash
10-10-2007, 09:39 PM
This may only be a slight help, but Google Earth suggests to people posting Panoramio photos that they mark them at the town but not directly over the subject matter. This may be why the markers you're looking at seem out of place.

G'day MWM!
It's not the placemarks I was curious about but what is at the end of the road.

If you locate yourself at the charcoal kilns (on GE) and then continue right on up to the end of Mahogany Flat Rd you come to some buildings. It is these I would like to get some info about.
I originally (pre GT.com days) thought those buildings might be Panamint City but I now know they are not.
Very modern looking and seem to be in good nick, so I am guessing.... weather station???
Waddaya think?

Since I learned of the existence of Ballarat, I've been doing a lot of investigating into the links between our Ballarat and California. We have a lot more in common than one might think. Seems a lot of Aussies ended up in California and quite a few came the other way. The original stage coach line of NSW, known as Cobb and Co, was started by a guy with connections to Wells Fargo.

David A. Wright
10-11-2007, 04:03 PM
You probably all know those kilns?
The kilns are a landmark and are in excellent shape. They are associated with the making of charcoal for a smelter located across Panamint Valley at the now ghosted town of Lookout. Go to the Lookout page on this website to see historic and current photos of the charcoal kilns.


Continuing to the end of Mahogany Flat Rd you come to the crest of a peak and there is a small collection of buildings there.
I am wondering what these might be?
Likely the communications site on Rogers Peak, just south of Mahogany Flat. Radio and telephone communications towers and small shacks for the electronics.


Anyone been up there? Cold? Access good? 2WD ok?
Wintertime access is generally impossible in a wheeled vehicle, even with 4x4, due to snow. In summer, generally the road is maintained enough that a standard automobile can make it. It's a popular camping area in summer when the valley temperatures are too hot.

Gravelrash
10-12-2007, 12:18 AM
Likely the communications site on Rogers Peak, just south of Mahogany Flat. Radio and telephone communications towers and small shacks for the electronics.

Wintertime access is generally impossible in a wheeled vehicle, even with 4x4, due to snow. In summer, generally the road is maintained enough that a standard automobile can make it. It's a popular camping area in summer when the valley temperatures are too hot.

David, thanks for that. I've seen the kilns (GE also has several photos) and now I have my guess confirmed, that the buildings in question are weather/comm shacks. It certainly does look like a great spot to camp but I have found so many places in America that that can be said about. What a country you people have!

It's kinda hard for me to get my head around the fact that there's a snow problem in places like Utah, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico. I suppose my steady diet of John Wayne, Roy Rogers, Hopalong Cassidy, Rin Tin Tin and the like, didn't ever feature blizzards! My youthful picture of those areas is of hot, dusty and arid.
I'm gonna have to fine tune my arrival date! I have been in snow in Oz (have so too!) but it's so rare that each time is memorable - the idea of sleeping in it..... not this little black duck!

Not relevant to much, but thinking about cold brought this memory to mind.
I used to live in the Isarn area of Thailand, near the Mekong River. In 91 or 2 there was a "cold snap" where the temps fell to 8 degrees!!! People actually died of exposure. The army had to do blanket drops and take people in to army barracks for protection from the cold! Everything is relative, hey?

David A. Wright
10-12-2007, 02:56 PM
It's kinda hard for me to get my head around the fact that there's a snow problem in places like Utah, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico.
People have a stereotypical view that there is no such thing as snow in California.

However, California has the highest point in the continental United States (Mt. Whitney, 14,495 feet). California's lowest recorded temperature was nearly -50 degrees below zero farenheit. And snow depths within a few miles of my home can reach as deep as 20-25 FEET. In my home area, sqeezed between the Sierra Nevada and Death Valley, it can snow any month of the year; even during the hottest summer months a thunderstorm will deposit a blanket of snow or frozen rain on the mountains above 12,500-13,000 feet. When people think of California, they often think the entire state is full of gorgeous women who run around all year long driving convertibles with the top down, wearing bikinis and driving down palm tree studded boulevards.


People actually died of exposure. ... Everything is relative, hey?
Yes, the same thing happens in the United States also. In some areas of the country, people die off like flies en mass when temperatures go over 100 degrees farenheit. In my neck of the woods, we just turn on the swamp cooler and have an ice tea.

In some areas of the country, if the temperature drops below freezing, people die from exposure. We just put on an extra sweater where I live.

By the way, my best friend, often featured on my website (http://www.gbr.4wdtrips.net/) is English born, raised since a toddler in Australia. He came to the US in the mid-1960s and has stayed since. His aged parents moved back to England in the '90s, his mother is 90 years old and still lives there. My buddy is referred to as "Graham C." and drives a silver 2000 Toyota Tacoma 4WD pickup. We often "reconnoiter" together, driving both of our trucks.

GaryB
10-12-2007, 05:05 PM
We got about 8" of snow last Friday in Ely, NV. It melted off, but they were getting more when we left today. I have personally seen it snow in Ely and Elko, NV during July and August.

David A. Wright
10-15-2007, 01:23 PM
We got about 8" of snow last Friday in Ely, NV. It melted off, but they were getting more when we left today. I have personally seen it snow in Ely and Elko, NV during July and August.
Memorial Day weekend of 2006 it snowed on me and a buddy as we explored and camped at Ione and Grantsville ghost towns in Nye County. I got snowed upon with a depth of more than an inch at Jarbidge, Nevada (northern Elko County) in mid-September last year.

I got a dusting of snow at my home in Owens Valley near Bishop a bit more than a week ago. There is still some snow on the ground at Mammoth from the same storm.

Gravelrash: If you are particularly interested in the Panamint and Death Valley areas, may I suggest a couple of more focused boards for your questions about this particular area:

http://www.death-valley.net/forum/index.php - a good board, but a bit slow.

http://www.panamintvalley.com/forum/ - a much more active board. Most members are found on both boards.

http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/dvtalk.shtml - a bit fiesty at times, much more liberal than either of the others.

Gravelrash
10-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Memorial Day weekend of 2006 it snowed on me and a buddy as we explored and camped at Ione and Grantsville ghost towns in Nye County. I got snowed upon with a depth of more than an inch at Jarbidge, Nevada (northern Elko County) in mid-September last year.

I got a dusting of snow at my home in Owens Valley near Bishop a bit more than a week ago. There is still some snow on the ground at Mammoth from the same storm.

Gravelrash: If you are particularly interested in the Panamint and Death Valley areas, may I suggest a couple of more focused boards for your questions about this particular area:

http://www.death-valley.net/forum/index.php - a good board, but a bit slow.

http://www.panamintvalley.com/forum/ - a much more active board. Most members are found on both boards.

http://www.deathvalley.com/dvtalk/dvtalk.shtml - a bit fiesty at times, much more liberal than either of the others.

David - good morning! Either you're up late or I'm up early!
I'll certainly check out those boards - many thanks for the tip.

By the way, my best friend, often featured on my website (http://www.gbr.4wdtrips.net/) is English born, raised since a toddler in Australia. He came to the US in the mid-1960s and has stayed since. His aged parents moved back to England in the '90s, his mother is 90 years old and still lives there. My buddy is referred to as "Graham C." and drives a silver 2000 Toyota Tacoma 4WD pickup. We often "reconnoiter" together, driving both of our trucks.

Maybe we can meet up next year? I'm sure you'll both be up for a bit of Jarbidge by that time and I'd love to benefit from your many trips up that way.
Since I joined this motley crew my original plans have gone out the window. I'm now much more interested in Idaho then I've ever been and Jarbidge looks like a good entry point.
I've heard a lot of Idaho jokes in the past, from fellow American workers who were merciless on our colleague from there, but it has won me over.
I'm dreaming of my own private Idaho now!
There's so much of America that has over-awed me but that Idaho area between Rocky Bar and Bannack - that'd do me!

GaryB
10-15-2007, 01:57 PM
David - good morning! Either you're up late or I'm up early!



It's 10 minutes to 3PM on the west coast here. IIRC you guys are 19 hours ahead of us? Well Sydney is anyway. I guess it depends on which end of the island you live on ;)

Actually I'm up late, got to get to bed for graveyard :mad:

Gravelrash
10-15-2007, 02:11 PM
It's 10 minutes to 3PM on the west coast here. IIRC you guys are 19 hours ahead of us? Well Sydney is anyway. I guess it depends on which end of the island you live on ;)

Actually I'm up late, got to get to bed for graveyard :mad:

I'm right down the arse-end of Oz, Gary, in Gippsland, Victoria - last stop before Antarctica and today the lazy wind has found every crack in the building! This is supposed to be mid-Spring!
(Same time zone as Sydney.)
I look on my time here as penance for a mis-spent youth. Doesn't help!:rolleyes:

Gravelrash
10-21-2007, 11:25 PM
When people think of California, they often think the entire state is full of gorgeous women who run around all year long driving convertibles with the top down, wearing bikinis and driving down palm tree studded boulevards.


I've been thinking about this.... a lot.
Seems to me this should be the way of it, and there needs to be laws passed to enforce it.
The Beach Boys had the right idea!

mainmanwalkin
10-23-2007, 07:09 AM
It's kinda hard for me to get my head around the fact that there's a snow problem in places like Utah, Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico.

I visited Tombstone, Arizona in August 2001, and was very surprised to see a layer of snow on the ground there, that close to the Mexican Border. Sure it was a thin layer, but still very unexpected.

Gravelrash
10-23-2007, 09:10 PM
I visited Tombstone, Arizona in August 2001, and was very surprised to see a layer of snow on the ground there, that close to the Mexican Border. Sure it was a thin layer, but still very unexpected.

G'day MWM!
Yeah, I've now seen a photo showing Tombstone under snow. I have to say, it made it look brilliant.
I guess that's why they put heaters in trucks! ;)
I won't be letting a little snow get in the way of a good time, but I've been doing a lot of research on Montana, Wyoming, Colorado. I spluttered tea all over the computer, reading one post that said this particular pass had been closed because of 30 ft of snow! Until recently I had no idea some of those passes are always closed in winter.
My #1 high-light, Going to the Sun rd - I can almost guarantee it will be snow-bound, because I'm coming over to drive it!
I have that sort of luck, trust me. (No-one goes fishing with me. No-one!)
Big snow is a major worry. I'm not going all that way to tobogan!
Imagine me - trying to snow-shoe!:rolleyes:

Gravelrash
10-23-2007, 09:11 PM
By the way, MWM, is your "handle" anything to do with Steven King's "The Stand"?

ghost_town_huntress
10-23-2007, 09:25 PM
Of which was filmed primarily here in Utah.

Rachel in Utah ghost_town_huntress@yahoo.com

By the way, MWM, is your "handle" anything to do with Steven King's "The Stand"?

Gravelrash
10-23-2007, 11:30 PM
Of which was filmed primarily here in Utah.

Rachel, as I'm 100% "sold" on Utah, these days, it doesn't surprise me there's been so many great films shot there.
What did you think of the film version of "The Stand"?
Just to test out your "film buff" credentials (or anyone elses) - in Kevin Costner's "The Postman" there's a scene where he arrives at a community that Tom Petty was "mayor" of. It was a dam/hydro electric station. Anyone know where that scene was shot?

Are you still up in SLC or have you managed to get back to the acreage? I've been watching the California fires with horror. They are really doing it tough, and then will come....the insurance man!

brian10x
10-24-2007, 04:20 AM
I visited Tombstone, Arizona in August 2001, and was very surprised to see a layer of snow on the ground there, that close to the Mexican Border. Sure it was a thin layer, but still very unexpected.

Are you sure it was August? Its 110 degrees in these parts in August. Always.

mainmanwalkin
10-24-2007, 08:50 AM
Are you sure it was August? Its 110 degrees in these parts in August. Always.

Woops! I visited my brother in Denver in August 2001.

I visited him in AZ in January 2004 (he's moved around out west a few times) So yeah, it would be really freaky if there was snow on the ground in Tombstone the middle of summer. Sorry for my boneheaded mistake.... :o

Still, it was cold in Tombstone in January. People were wearing coats and whenever we were in the shade out of the sun I would almost shiver. Then again, I've lived in Florida since I was five and have pretty thin blood. My brother didnt even wear a jacket.

Btw, it was my trip to AZ that got me into ghost towns. I tried to get him to go out ghosttown hunting, but he wasn't very interested. We drove down the main roads with him saying "I dont know, I dont see any little towns out there" Still, at least he tried.

One other thing, I saw that there is an actual Tombstone High School there. Now how cool would that be to say you went to Tombstone High?

mainmanwalkin
10-24-2007, 08:55 AM
Btw, it was my trip to AZ that got me into ghost towns. I tried to get him to go out ghosttown hunting, but he wasn't very interested. We drove down the main roads with him saying "I dont know, I dont see any little towns out there" Still, at least he tried.


So Brian10x, my brother lives in Tucson AZ too but unfortunately as I described above he doesn't have any interest in ghost towns (and we only really went to Tombstone because I wanted to see it)

mainmanwalkin
10-24-2007, 09:10 AM
By the way, MWM, is your "handle" anything to do with Steven King's "The Stand"?

No, actually it's a take-off of the movie title "Dead Man Walking"

However I didnt want quite the image of being a dead man, and I dont look much like Sean Penn.

I haven't watched "The Stand", is there really a Main Man Walking in it?

GaryB
10-24-2007, 11:43 AM
I would have guessed it to be an adaptation of Kings "The Long Walk" myself.

BTW, one of the early fire trucks from Tombstone was for sale on eBay awhile back. I would have seriously thought about getting it, but don't have the room to store and work on it. Yet.

David A. Wright
10-24-2007, 02:24 PM
I spluttered tea all over the computer, reading one post that said this particular pass had been closed because of 30 ft of snow! Until recently I had no idea some of those passes are always closed in winter.
Tioga Pass, an hour north of my home, is closed in winter due to deep snow. I can get well over 30 feet deep up there.

Heck, when I lived in June Lake - 22 miles north of Mammoth Lakes (1974-1985) - we had 27 feet on the level at the deepest point during the long winter. My home went under in December, the back half finally melted out from under the snow in July. I had snow out front all summer long.

The ghost town of Bodie was buried that winter. I snowmobiled in to Bodie in '83 and found only the Standard Mill, the schoolhouse belfry and a few random telephone poles sticking out of the snow.

GaryB
10-24-2007, 03:47 PM
This is a picture from Rollins Pass in Colorado. Not sure exactly where or when, I just liked the picture :D

Gravelrash
10-25-2007, 03:52 AM
No, actually it's a take-off of the movie title "Dead Man Walking"

However I didnt want quite the image of being a dead man, and I dont look much like Sean Penn.

I haven't watched "The Stand", is there really a Main Man Walking in it?

Actually, frantically attempting a quick recall, I think the character was just called "the Walking Man". Better go back and read it!
King often seems to nail the essence of America and he really got it in that book - at least to this outsider.

Gravelrash
10-25-2007, 03:56 AM
Tioga Pass, an hour north of my home, is closed in winter due to deep snow. I can get well over 30 feet deep up there.

Heck, when I lived in June Lake - 22 miles north of Mammoth Lakes (1974-1985) - we had 27 feet on the level at the deepest point during the long winter. My home went under in December, the back half finally melted out from under the snow in July. I had snow out front all summer long.

The ghost town of Bodie was buried that winter. I snowmobiled in to Bodie in '83 and found only the Standard Mill, the schoolhouse belfry and a few random telephone poles sticking out of the snow.

David - you're freakin me out! I gotta ask once again, is there anywhere in the USA you havent lived? How about - anywhere where it doesn't snow?:p

I can see my trip is going to have to be late Spring/Summer. It's no real biggie - I'd just been hoping to sneak in under the airline "shoulder" period, when they charge an arm and a leg. I already gave at the office!:)

Gravelrash
10-25-2007, 04:01 AM
This is a picture from Rollins Pass in Colorado. Not sure exactly where or when, I just liked the picture :D

I keep coming across photos like this, on various websites and GE. I have to say it looks like a real buzz, and encountering situations like that would be something to remember but, a little bit of that would go a long way!
I'm hoping to camp out a lot, so snow is not going to be my friend!
Maybe Mikejts can do some snow bashing and I'll take the piccies. I know my limitations!
I'll call, Mike!

Flatiron
10-27-2007, 04:08 AM
I too, just like David, lived in June Lake for a few years after getting divorced, and can tell you he's not exagerating about the snowfall in the June Lake loop. I was buiding a home just above June and Gull Lakes at the time, and remember shoveling snow 7 1/2 feet deep off the sub-floor after 3 storms over 4 days hit the area. We even used an Ariens snow-blower on the floor 2 days later when another 2 feet of snow hit. If you plan on doing some high country GTing, you may want to wait until at least the middle to end of May before heading up there. Of course with global warming ;) going on, that may change. By the way, according to Uncle Al Gore, this is the hottest the earth has been in 400 years. Who was to blame 400 years ago, as there were no cars or factories producing all those greenhouse gases. Hmmm. Must have been the buffalo, cows, and sheep, I guess..:eek: ......

GaryB
10-27-2007, 08:27 PM
Who was to blame 400 years ago, as there were no cars or factories producing all those greenhouse gases. Hmmm. Must have been the buffalo, cows, and sheep, I guess..:eek: ......


Those **** aliens again.

High Desert Drifter
10-27-2007, 09:26 PM
Those **** aliens again.

I hate when aliens come to earth to fart! maybe we should direct them all over to Gore's back yard... see if he can buy enough carbon off sets to cover it!!!

Gravelrash
10-27-2007, 10:22 PM
By the way, according to Uncle Al Gore, this is the hottest the earth has been in 400 years. Who was to blame 400 years ago, as there were no cars or factories producing all those greenhouse gases. Hmmm. Must have been the buffalo, cows, and sheep, I guess..:eek: ......

Now, now - let's not allow logic to interupt the Green flow. Or science!

Al Gore is already knee deep in ********, so farting cows should be real familiar to him. He needs to hook a few up and use the methane to run that huge spread of his! Durn hypocrite!

You boys be very cautious! Soon it will be a hanging offence to mock the great green goddess!
These people scare me more than any I've ever encountered. Zealots are dangerous and.... they've got MY lifestyle right in their sights!:mad:

Mr Flat - thanks for the snow update! I'm definitely not arriving in Arizona till mid-Spring, now. I'll work my way up to Montana real slow!;)

brian10x
10-27-2007, 11:05 PM
I hate when aliens come to earth to fart! maybe we should direct them all over to Gore's back yard... see if he can buy enough carbon off sets to cover it!!!

You be nice now! Al Gore invented the internet, and if we make him mad, he might take it away!

Gravelrash
10-28-2007, 01:46 AM
Who cares about making him mad!! I've just watched the Oz version of 60 Minutes. A non-stop "the sky is falling" diatribe. What a crock!

brian10x
10-28-2007, 12:39 PM
The whole thing makes me want to be as enviornmentally hostile as possible.

Not to be confused with littering or dumping motor oil into the sewers.

Quite a few of my cars have worn a catalytic converter only on "special ocaisions" when going through a smog check. Don't get me started on smog checks. Grrrrrrrr. Just search my past posts. Grrrrr.

The laws still allow me to make my motorcycle converter free.It contributes more than its share to global warming. So sue me. I even tried to get the hide from an endangered species for my seat, but ostrich was a close as I could get. No one wanted to do bald eagle for me.

And I can make more methane than a cow can. One of my dogs (poor thing) has permanent brain damage from sleeping inder the covers.

David A. Wright
10-29-2007, 01:59 PM
You boys be very cautious! Soon it will be a hanging offence to mock the great green goddess!
These people scare me more than any I've ever encountered. Zealots are dangerous and.... they've got MY lifestyle right in their sights!:mad:
These "companies" have bought off American government politicians and are shutting down America's public lands illegally at an alarming rate. From my observations, their intent is to make all of California (except San Francisco) a wilderness area and make the entire state the largest pot farm on the planet. Thank goodness for Nevada ... they eat greenies for lunch.

Gravelrash
10-29-2007, 02:27 PM
Thank goodness for Nevada ... they eat greenies for lunch.

Well, there's another ringing endorsement of Nevada!
As my mate, Doc Evil, says, "Mount up!"

GaryB
10-29-2007, 05:53 PM
Well, there's another ringing endorsement of Nevada!
As my mate, Doc Evil, says, "Mount up!"


Ehh, the greenies have pretty much over taken Clark County (Las Vegas). We're constantly fighting the Forest Service, BLM and county offices over the closing of public lands and the destruction, excuse me, reclamation of mining/historical sites.

You can get a ticket here for creating any dust by being on a gravel road, regardless if it's in a motor vehicle or not. Funny thing is, they grade the roads every other year or so, which creates a lot of dust.

Likely it's from all the greenies spilling out of Kaliforn-i-a. But just more reasons I'm getting out of here.;)


BTW: Anyone hear that Kali has realized from the recent fires that clear cutting foliage around houses to create fire breaks might be a good thing to allow, as opposed to outlawing it like now? :rolleyes:

Flatiron
10-29-2007, 06:26 PM
I think it's kind of ironic that the ultra-liberals who lost their homes to the wildfires, are the same folks who oppose forest and brush thinning as needed. What really yanks my chain is when they tie up fire salvage in burn areas with lawsuits, where if they stopped to realize that every burned tree that is salvaged, means that that's one live tree less that needs to be cut. These people are really a bunch of sheep that can't think for themselves, and rely on their "heroes" to tell what to do. Geez!

David A. Wright
10-31-2007, 03:49 PM
I think it's kind of ironic that the ultra-liberals who lost their homes to the wildfires, are the same folks who oppose forest and brush thinning as needed.
I'm seeing on TV the finger pointing already starting. The liberals will just blame and sue FEMA. Boxer and Fienstien will just babble eco-speak and get more payoffs from the greenies. And it's time for me to get off my soapbox now before I hurt myself ... :rolleyes:

David A. Wright
10-31-2007, 03:55 PM
Ehh, the greenies have pretty much over taken Clark County (Las Vegas). We're constantly fighting the Forest Service, BLM and county offices over the closing of public lands and the destruction, excuse me, reclamation of mining/historical sites.
I thought Clark County and LV were California ... :p They've learned from their big brother LA how to suck the rest of the state dry and now want to stick two big straws into Nevada's interior and start sucking out the water only to spray it into the air in fountains, fill up more artificial lakes and flush toilets in more "mega-resorts." :mad:

Seriously, get a couple hours north of LV, especially up US93, and you're out there in the middle of nowhere. The local ranchers and residents have nerve to protect what they hold dear - freedom to use their public lands as the public wishes to do, not as does the socialist monarchies that hide behind Environment Inc. and abuse their power.

I think I got a hernia from getting back up on my soapbox ... :D

Flatiron
10-31-2007, 05:46 PM
David...........They make some kind of belt/diaper type thingee for those hernias. Keep gettin' on that soapbox. I like hearing about that kind of stuff. By the way, are there any greenies in Big Pine?:mad:

Gravelrash
10-31-2007, 08:18 PM
I think I got a hernia from getting back up on my soapbox ... :D

Lemme help you up there, old timer!

My 2 cents worth. This was in my emails this morning.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/10/the_environmentalist_fires.html

Environmental mandates have made fire safety for humans take a back seat to the well-being of the aforementioned California creatures, as well as that of every bug and rat lucky enough to be listed as an "endangered species" under federal and state law. For over a decade, environmentalists have hamstrung Californians in their efforts to clear the dry brush that is providing the fuel for this massive fire. If any of these endangered or even "threatened" species are found in shrubs or bushes on public or private property, it becomes very difficult to give this vegetation even the slightest haircut. This is true even if city codes require firebreaks to be built.

Reading the whole piece I realised you only needed to change the names of the states and the species involved, and it could have been written in Oz.

David A. Wright
11-04-2007, 06:52 PM
By the way, are there any greenies in Big Pine?
Yup. Lots and lots of those big, leafy greenie things that make my little ol' town a nice, green place to live ... ;) Although they're turning quite golden now and loosing their lil' ol' greenie thingies for the onslaught of winter ... :D