PDA

View Full Version : Dust off your hiking boots



LauraA
06-06-2008, 01:39 PM
Someone sent me this article. If greenies get their way, we'll all be walking. :mad:

azdailysun.com - Flagstaff and Northern Arizona News, Photos, Obituary, Calendar Events, Classifieds, and Directory (http://azdailysun.com/articles/2008/06/04/news/national/20080604_us_news_22.txt)

campp
06-06-2008, 01:51 PM
I wouldn't worry too much. I don't see how this idea could pass. There's just way too many conflicts involved.

brian10x
06-06-2008, 02:18 PM
Someone sent me this article. If greenies get their way, we'll all be walking. :mad:

azdailysun.com - Flagstaff and Northern Arizona News, Photos, Obituary, Calendar Events, Classifieds, and Directory (http://azdailysun.com/articles/2008/06/04/news/national/20080604_us_news_22.txt)

Greenies? Where?

Kelly
06-06-2008, 03:02 PM
Brian,
I like the roof mounted bug deflector:D

brian10x
06-06-2008, 03:15 PM
Brian,
I like the roof mounted bug deflector:D

I'm working on exchanging it for the medium version. Gosh darn its h e l l trying to lose weight at 48. (NO pun intended)

Gravelrash
06-13-2008, 03:41 AM
If greenies get their way, we'll all be walking. :mad:

Laura, that no longer surprises me, even as it disgusts me.
However, if some other Greenies get their way, we'll be dealing with problems a lot worse than walking. These are "oldies but goldies",from my collection of random madnesses; some are Oz-centric, others are USA/International. They are all alarming!



"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."
Prince Philip, reported by Deutsche Presse-Agentur (DPA), August, 1988. Prince Philip, first President of WWF-UK from its foundation in 1961 to 1982, and President of WWF-International from 1981 to 1996, is now President Emeritus for WWF. He was a founder of the Australian Conservation Foundation and its President from 1971 to 1976.
One "human way to reduce the population might be to put something in the water, a virus that would be specific to the human reproductive system and would make a substantial proportion of the population infertile. Perhaps a virus that would knock out the genes that produce certain hormones necessary for conception. ... A triage approach will be necessary so that scarce medical resources go to those who can contribute most to the long-term viability of the planet. Consequently, many middle-aged-to-elderly people will die uncomfortable deaths. Not every problem is solveable."
Dr John Reid speaking with Robyn Williams on ABC radio, 10 December, 2006.
See http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2006/1807002.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/ockhamsrazor/stories/2006/1807002.htm) for full transcript.
"Isn't the only hope for the planet that the industrialised civilisations collapse? Isn't it our responsibility to bring that about?"
Maurice Strong, Secretary-General of the UN Earth Summit, June 1992.
"...At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 per diem. War, so far, has had no very great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars.... War ... has hitherto been disappointing in this respect ... but perhaps bacteriological war may prove more effective. If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full.... The state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to happiness, especially other peoples'...."
Lord Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society, 1953
"This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world populations, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."
Jacques Cousteau, co-recipient in 1977 (with Sir Peter Scott) of the International Environmental Prize awarded by the United Nations for outstanding contributions in the field of the environment. Quoted from UNESCO Courier, November 1991.
"We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."
Carl Amery, Founding member of the German Green Party, quoted in Mensch & Energie, April 1983.
"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds, I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds."
Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace, as quoted by Dixy Lee Ray in her book Trashing the Planet (1990).
"Childbearing should be a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license. ...All potential parents should be required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing."
David Brower, first executive director of the Sierra Club; founder of Friends of the Earth; and founder of the Earth Island Institute.
"I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems."
John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal
"We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight."
David Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
[Cannibalism is a] "radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation."
Dr Lyall Watson, anthropologist, Commissioner for the International Whaling Commission, as quoted in the Financial Times, 15 July 1995.
"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem."
Dr Lamont Cole, Professor of Ecology, Cornell University, as quoted by Elizabeth Whelan in her book Toxic Terror.
"The world has cancer, and that cancer is man."
Merton Lambert, former spokesman for the Rockefeller Foundation, quoted from Harpeth Journal, Dec. 18, 1962.
"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
Ted Turner, media mogul, as quoted in Audubon, November-December 1991.

brian10x
06-13-2008, 05:24 AM
"We, in the green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which killing a forest will be considered more contemptible and more criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."

It simply boggles the mind to think that MANY of these greenies think that way.

Do you know what happens if forests are allowed to grow uncontrolled? (as opposed to responsible logging and re-planting) Massive forest fires. I guess its better to see it burn than to use them to build (oh the horror!) houses.

Same with hunting. If overpopulation is allowed (it happens to elephants in some parts of Africa) there is not enough food supply and starvation ensues. So much better to have them starve to death than to have them hunted and (oh, the horror!) the meat used to feed a viilage. (The hunter gets his trophy, the village gets its dinner). For the record, I don't hunt.

I heard on the radio yesterday that this movement to save endangered species is backfiring spectacularly. Supposedly, when planning new construction, if at any time something on "the list" is discovered, construction must cease immediately.

"Oh, my, a spotted Ethiopian rat!" I guess we'll have to stop construction of my new home.
or...

LauraA
06-13-2008, 12:30 PM
Pete, The most disturbing thing about the quotes you posted is that they were made by the (supposed):rolleyes: thinkers, movers and shakers of our time. Scary thought....very scary.

Gravelrash
06-14-2008, 02:49 AM
Pete, The most disturbing thing about the quotes you posted is that they were made by the (supposed):rolleyes: thinkers, movers and shakers of our time. Scary thought....very scary.

Agreed, Laura. The content of their "higher thinking" scares the bejingoes outta me, but the fact of their positioning in all the "right places".... thus assuring them a voice and influence I will never enjoy.....that is the really scary stuff!
Time for an updated version of The Boston Tea Party, methinks..... all Anglospherics invited!


....the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels.
Having seen this sort of thing "for real", it is contemptible that a supposed elite would even think it appropriate to use the practice as an example.

brian10x
06-14-2008, 07:34 AM
Pete,
When you think about it, the reason so many evil, twisted souls are in high political office is that regular guys like you and me would never take a job like that and do the things they have to do.

I was thinking about it. Say you got this reasonably decent man, out of college with good intentions and ready to change the world. He still has some common sense and values at this point. He considers politics as a career. After several failed attempts to get elected, he is given advice by someone "in the game". Among other things, he is told:

1- You MUST be vague enough to be able to please both sides in any issue.
2-You MUST learn to look at lies and deception not as BAD things, but as GOOD things, essential tools for achieving your goals.
3-You MUST understand that WE can assist you, but there are small "details" WE need YOU to attend to if you are sucessful. Without US, YOU are likely to fail.
4-You MUST understand WE have your best interests in mind. WE are smarter than YOU, and YOU are smarter than the voters. WE will guide you, and YOU will lead them in the direction WE choose.
5-It dosen't matter who WE are. It dosen't matter how YOU feel about the things we tell you to do. It only matters that you WIN. Then we will talk again.

So, young man, do you still want to enter the exciting world of politics? Come with me, we'll change the world together. Whats that? Liberal? Conservative? (Laughs) It dosen't matter! Its all the same to us!

So why would any moral, honest man or woman pursue a career in politics?

LauraA
06-14-2008, 03:26 PM
"Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so." ~ Gore Vidal

teds280z
06-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Anybody remember the the movie Soylent Green. Well if that was used only using any type of criminal from petty theft to terrorist and make it immediate so we don't have to spend billions on taking care of these ??? Plus start a genology that couples can only have one child, things might turn around.:p

brian10x
06-14-2008, 04:25 PM
Anybody remember the the movie Soylent Green. Well if that was used only using any type of criminal from petty theft to terrorist and make it immediate so we don't have to spend billions on taking care of these ??? Plus start a genology that couples can only have one child, things might turn around.:p

Soylent green on Tuesdays only, right? Soylent milk for the pets!

Gravelrash
06-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Pete,
When you think about it, the reason so many evil, twisted souls are in high political office is that regular guys like you and me would never take a job like that and do the things they have to do.





"Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so." ~ Gore Vidal


And I thought it was just me!:rolleyes:
Brian, I've been "approached" in the past, to run for local office only, but I gave it all of 5 minutes consideration. I'd like to say something high-minded like I had better ideals but the truth was just very self-serving.
I couldn't stand the sorts of people I'd have to spend many hours a week with!


"Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so." ~ Gore Vidal

Gotta love that!

xplor'npaul
06-17-2008, 12:53 PM
Kiss it goodbye. The gov't has already made up it's mind. :cool:

LauraA
06-18-2008, 03:44 AM
Kiss it goodbye. The gov't has already made up it's mind. :cool:

I'm afraid you're right, it's just a matter of time. Thankfully, the bureaucracy moves very slow.

Gravelrash
06-18-2008, 02:45 PM
I heard, the other day, that California is your most populated state...(?).
Very conveniently situated on the left of America, when viewed from space, so why not make it an ideological divide as well as a physical one. Retards over there, sane people over here. Visas granted on a need-to-go basis. No habla socialism.
(I have the same idea about New Zealand!)

teds280z
06-18-2008, 05:02 PM
I lived in San Jose for 16 yrs and I think it is already divided. Hey true GT'ers you are exempt from this. :eek:

xplor'npaul
06-19-2008, 01:41 PM
:cool: They don't call us the cereal state for nothing. Nothing but nut's and flakes around here. Me being the exception of course. too many enviromentalists, which wouldn't be a bad thing, if they were middle of the road instead of being extremists.

We're suffering a recently declared drought down here in So Cal , in part cuz some jerk off judge declared some fish up north to be endangered, so we can't get water from that part of the state. People first, animals second, and I am an animal lover. Except for cougars and rattlesnakes.... blast 'em.

xplor'npaul
06-19-2008, 02:15 PM
by the way, yeah, I know snakes aren't animals, I'm just lumping everything in.....you get the idea.:eek:

brian10x
06-19-2008, 09:20 PM
by the way, yeah, I know snakes aren't animals, I'm just lumping everything in.....you get the idea.:eek:

I do the same thing here in Arizona.

Coyotes, javelinas, illegals, snakes, scorpions.

teds280z
06-20-2008, 11:17 AM
Don't forget the Aliens but I guess they are all over. I know Reno has 'em

xplor'npaul
06-20-2008, 11:53 AM
me being in So Cal....wouldn't have figured 'em being that far north.

Natalie's Boots
07-15-2008, 07:09 PM
Is walking really that bad? I get the feeling I'm more liberal than most folks here... but I wouldn't mind seeing fewer vehicles up in the mountains. There's such a thing as nature being TOO accessible. Personally I'd rather hike my butt off for my adventures and enjoy the true quiet and serenity of not having vehicles or tourists around than have the convience of just being able to drive everywhere. Maybe some places should stay remote and hard to access? Look what happens to places that aren't... when I hike for miles to get somewhere scenic only to see bottles cans wrappers and tyre tracks it makes me sad. In no way did the article sound extreme or unreasonable to me. I'm sure most (if not all) of the members here are responsible about where they go but when SUV's and 4WD vehicles have become so popular as they have there will inevitably be a HUGE increase in off-road activity, including plenty of irresponsible activity which damages ecosystems and makes responsible 4-wheelers look bad. I can't say I didn't see this coming after seeing how many people just go tearin' around wherever they without thinking about it.

Joel
07-15-2008, 07:33 PM
There's not many hikers here. I do Southern Arizona myself. Some folks do both, 4WD drive and hoofing it. Others for some reason or another can't hike.
We have thousands of miles of dirt roads that can test the skill and nerve of any driver and machine. I see many in machines going off-road, just part of the growing west and humanity in general.

jbodine
07-15-2008, 09:07 PM
Is walking really that bad? I get the feeling I'm more liberal than most folks here... but I wouldn't mind seeing fewer vehicles up in the mountains. There's such a thing as nature being TOO accessible. Personally I'd rather hike my butt off for my adventures and enjoy the true quiet and serenity of not having vehicles or tourists around than have the convience of just being able to drive everywhere. Maybe some places should stay remote and hard to access? Look what happens to places that aren't... when I hike for miles to get somewhere scenic only to see bottles cans wrappers and tyre tracks it makes me sad. In no way did the article sound extreme or unreasonable to me. I'm sure most (if not all) of the members here are responsible about where they go but when SUV's and 4WD vehicles have become so popular as they have there will inevitably be a HUGE increase in off-road activity, including plenty of irresponsible activity which damages ecosystems and makes responsible 4-wheelers look bad. I can't say I didn't see this coming after seeing how many people just go tearin' around wherever they without thinking about it.

Since you did say you wanted to get a Jeep in another thread I will assume you are not way off into liberal land lol.
Without the use of vehicles people would not be able to get to most of these places I for one would not care to pull off the side of the highway in Death Valley and try to hike to some of the awesome historical places DV has to offer or lets say Colorado, there are some beautiful ghosttowns at 13000 ft. thats a long walk especially for a disabled person IMO its all about responsible shared access if people would stay on existing routes and pick up after themselves we would not have a problem.I would also hope there would not be any assumptions made about all of the people like myself in the OHV community, The truck and the Jeep you see in the How do you get there thread along with many other volunteers and there vehicles have spent countless hours doing work such as fence repair trash pickup and the closing of illegal bypasses all to try and keep the right for everyone to have the opputunity to travel to our historic past.:) I hope you are able to get the pics you are looking for and if you do I hope you share.:)

Natalie's Boots
07-15-2008, 11:09 PM
I will concede that not everywhere can be hiked (that's why I'm looking into getting a 4WD, lol!). All I'm saying is that IMHO there's just too many people out there, and that really hurts legit people like us in the end. GT'ing (and exploring the wilderness in general) should not be so readily accessible that just anyone can pull up and fancy themselves some kind of explorer. Look at my photos of Rockmount College for an extreme example of that- since the 1980's the entire location has been vandalized so severely that it looks like a warzone, yet more remote locations survive from the 1880's or much much older just fine. Even the Mill I visited at Montgomery is littered with empty beer cans and soda bottles- and it's (suprise) just off a popular fishing spot and a popular 4WD trail leads right past the Mill.

Jeff is right, Ghost Towns *should* be accessible to folks who want to explore them. But the question that much be asked is, how accessible is too accessible? If Middle-Class Steve can throw his 2.5 kids in the SUV and just drive up to the doorstep of a GT, does that somewhat cheapen the experience for serious explorers like us? I certainly would rather GT's be somewhat remote! This community is about exploring and discovering, not tourism, correct?

Banning all forms of motorized transport in these locations is excessive in my opinion. However, vehicles are tools to be used to explore and preserve the past. The reasons behind the ban have nothing to do with the responsible 4-Wheelers that clean up after themselves and stay on the trail. Rather, it's the folks that go in with the attitude that they just own everything that's the problem. The outdoors is not just one big backyard, it belongs to nature NOT people.

This could be likened to the ban on firearms in National Parks. Back in the day folks would just stomp in and blast the **** out of whatever they wanted, to the point that species were going extinct. Does this mean that no-one should carry a gun in the wild? **** no. But it does mean that there was a problem with an excess of something.

Just because Joe Fratboy goes tears up a National Park with his buddies in their Jeeps doesn't mean that all 4-Wheelers are jackasses, not by a long run (despite what some extremists might say, boo). I know from personal experience that the vast majority of serious 4-Wheelers are very responsible about where they go and what they do.

The core problem is the fact that the number of 4WD vehicles on the road is increasing exponentially, to the point that the average family vehicle can be taken onto trails that were, 10-20 years ago, off-limits to all but hardcore folks, means that there's LOTS of traffic in areas that aren't ready to deal with so many visitors rushing in. And that's the bottom line for me- any sort of regulation should not be targeted at limiting access to serious explorers, but rather at limiting the extent of excessive use.


Cliff Notes: Moderation and Responsibility.
NO vehicles on the trails would be a poor situation. However, at the moment, there's too many on the trails which is equally as bad. Just find a good balance in between, that's all I'm trying to say.
In the mean time, I'll be puttin my boots on ^_^

jbodine
07-15-2008, 11:24 PM
Yes there is getting to be a great deal of people that is something that will not change infact it will get worse, and due to the fact that most of the land is public I would say the only thing left for us to do is to try and educate people and hope the government agencies can come up with fair but stern policies on abusers without cutting off our access.

LauraA
07-16-2008, 03:10 AM
Yes there is getting to be a great deal of people that is something that will not change infact it will get worse, and due to the fact that most of the land is public I would say the only thing left for us to do is to try and educate people and hope the government agencies can come up with fair but stern policies on abusers without cutting off our access.

You're right, there's got to be a middle ground. We've all seen the damage caused by vehicles going off-road and the morons who drive them, but in my not so humble opinion, road closures aren't the solution. The same people who are doing the damage will still continue to do so. "Road closed" is just the governments way of saying, "we don't have the money nor the manpower to police these locations, so we'll close them off to everyone." (they also make claims of trying to save the endangered Yellow-bellied-whosis-thingamabird in the process)
We're fighting darned hard in our area to keep roads open. Wilderness land has been designated and set aside, no motor vehicles are allowed, that's fine, as it should be.
After all, government land is sort of a misnomer anyway, isn't it? Last I knew, public lands are public lands and good bad or ugly we ARE the public.
We'll hike to get to an inaccessible remote location if we have to, but this isn't a very forgiving desert and we much prefer to have our vehicle with us for safety as well as comfort. I'm getting too d a m n e d old to be doing much hiking, but I'm not quite ready for a rocking chair either. I'll leave the more strenuous hiking to the younguns with their limitless enthusiasm and energy.