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Joel
01-03-2009, 12:39 PM
I started a social group for Southern Arizona. Seems that this feature has been neglected. The only other group is the Fort McMurray Alberta Ghost Hunters Society that has had no activity. I tossed in over 50 pictures of various locations to start things with. I know that a decent picture can spark interest in something. Hoping that others might follow suit.

campp
01-04-2009, 04:12 AM
Hi Joel,

I joined your group, always enjoy your photos. We use these social groups on another forum I monitor, and they are actually a fun feature when folks get involved.

Hurt my finger so can't type well right now...

Joel
01-04-2009, 06:11 AM
Hoping so!

rev dr g
01-05-2009, 01:37 AM
Hey Joel, sory for ignorance but what is your social group and how does it work. You gota remember i am an Aussie male, A social group with an Aussie male is an excuse for titt y girls hit the p iss and bulls hit the day away, with the odd complaints about the ol lady thrown in.:D ( no offence to all you sheilas out there:) )
regards
rev dr g

Joel
01-05-2009, 05:47 PM
Not quite sure of all the mechanisms involved. I was thinking more of a regional thing. Let me give a for instance. There's a site on the topos that's been driving me nuts: Camp Loco. No history but it's on the maps. The only drawback is that it's deep in headhunter country. The area is filled with illegals and drug smugglers. What would help would be local folks regarding actual conditions in the Tumacácoris rather than someone from LA, Des Moines or New Jersey chiming in about illegal immigration.
A regional or local chatter would be a bit of help from my way of thinking. Or am I totally off base here?

JoeZona
01-06-2009, 11:16 AM
There's a site on the topos that's been driving me nuts: Camp Loco.

Now that's funny. :D

campp
01-06-2009, 11:33 AM
Camp Loco

Sounds like my place! :)

normanlclark
01-06-2009, 07:42 PM
[quote=Joel;37385]I started a social group for Southern Arizona.

Joel;

I'm with you on this. I hang out in Rio Rico, Santa Cruz County. Perhaps we could, as a group, get together once a month and lift a few. :p

Norm

Joel
01-07-2009, 05:59 AM
That sounds like a fun idea! :)

Joel
01-07-2009, 06:21 AM
Posted something regarding the Los Santos Ángeles de Guevavi and San Cayetano de Calabazas Missions. Let me know if it works or is too much of a pain.

GaryB
01-11-2009, 02:45 PM
For anyone confused, since the last update we have a new option of creating or joining a "social group". It's basically a forum within the forums. When you go to your user control panel (labeled User CP on the top left of the menu) you have some new options on the left hand side to choose from under the Networking tab. Select the social group link and you get the listing of current groups to join and create.

normanlclark
01-13-2009, 02:46 PM
Posted something regarding the Los Santos Ángeles de Guevavi and San Cayetano de Calabazas Missions. Let me know if it works or is too much of a pain.

Joel;

I think you may have directed this at me, and it went right over my head. Senior moment, and I can't spell neither! Duhhhhhh.

anyway, the Calabazas site is now a park and picknic area, only thing left is adobe walls. I don't think, from what I have read, it ever was a mission with frescos and santos. It was only a few niles from the Guevavi site which was a true mission. I think it was more of a church, or "branch mission".

Gandara, the last Governor of Sonora, before part of it became Arizona, purchased it and turned it into a sheep ranch and at one time had as many as 38,000 sheep there. Later it was a customs house, but the pesky Apaches burned it on at least 2 occasions and it was abandoned.

The Guevavi site was a real mission with all the trappings, but still was abandoned because of the Apaches. The Dept. of Interior has a chain link fence around the Guevavi site, but you can crawll under it in several places. The ole mission is pretty much gone, although some of the walls and the outline of the structure remain. It's worth the trip to see and photograph it.

I'm not one to disturb such places, however I did find a beautiful arrowhead in the river bottom near the mission site. It is in a frame on my wall.

also; in regards to the elusive Santa Anna mission that was the last Spanish Mission built in AZ, somewhere about 35 miles West of Tucson, I finally got in touch with BLM and was referred to Mark Lambert at the Ironwood Preserve.
He is going to call me with coordinates.
I'll post when I get the info.

Norm

Joel
01-13-2009, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the update. Keep me posted on that if you will. I have a fair idea of where it might be, but it looks like a long ways out. I figure that it's about 17 miles from where I'd need to park and it looks like there is no road into area at all.

Froggy
01-16-2009, 06:20 AM
Around the turn of the century[1900], a black cowboy heard about the lost mines, and while wandering around the canyon, came upon the Cross in the Cliff, and the ruins of the original Mission.

Not known for certain, but another monument he may have seen was the face of Christ in a cliff. This is a man made monument. It was made to be viewed at a certain time of day, from a certain angle, at the right time of year. A combination of cut rocks and shadows form this monument that was meant to be seen from a distance. It is only one of several monuments in the area.

He spent a long time trying to find the lost mine of the Virgin de Guadalupe. He dug shafts all over the place. While he would dig, a Bighorn Sheep used to watch him from the cliffs above. The same sheep would watch every day. He started thinking that the spirit of one of the Jesuits was in the ram, watching him to make sure he didn't find the mine (we know this, because that's what he told the men who brought him supplies)! One day, he got flustered and shot the ram. He got more and more paranoid. So much so, that the men who brought him supplies, got worried, and one day, came to take him to a hospital to get help. When they got there, he pulled a knife and attacked them. They were forced to kill him in self-defense. From that day on, the location was known as Camp Loco.

Vulture
01-16-2009, 03:30 PM
Posted something regarding the Los Santos Ángeles de Guevavi and San Cayetano de Calabazas Missions. Let me know if it works or is too much of a pain.

Joel;

I think you may have directed this at me, and it went right over my head. Senior moment, and I can't spell neither! Duhhhhhh.

anyway, the Calabazas site is now a park and picknic area, only thing left is adobe walls. I don't think, from what I have read, it ever was a mission with frescos and santos. It was only a few niles from the Guevavi site which was a true mission. I think it was more of a church, or "branch mission".

Gandara, the last Governor of Sonora, before part of it became Arizona, purchased it and turned it into a sheep ranch and at one time had as many as 38,000 sheep there. Later it was a customs house, but the pesky Apaches burned it on at least 2 occasions and it was abandoned.

The Guevavi site was a real mission with all the trappings, but still was abandoned because of the Apaches. The Dept. of Interior has a chain link fence around the Guevavi site, but you can crawll under it in several places. The ole mission is pretty much gone, although some of the walls and the outline of the structure remain. It's worth the trip to see and photograph it.

I'm not one to disturb such places, however I did find a beautiful arrowhead in the river bottom near the mission site. It is in a frame on my wall.

also; in regards to the elusive Santa Anna mission that was the last Spanish Mission built in AZ, somewhere about 35 miles West of Tucson, I finally got in touch with BLM and was referred to Mark Lambert at the Ironwood Preserve.
He is going to call me with coordinates.
I'll post when I get the info.

Norm

Some Pics...

Looking northeast at Calabazas church, (Gandara hacienda) 1934.

Same view, 1913.

Looking northwest, 1913.

Looking northeast 1971.

1913 photo's by Robert Forbes.

Vulture
01-16-2009, 03:43 PM
Map, northern Sonora, 1687-1854.

Map, northern Sonora, 1854-1971.

James Ayers, Bernard Fontana & Will Rogers jr @ Calabazas, 1971.

Enraving of Calabazas, 1853.

Vulture
01-16-2009, 03:50 PM
Hard to fathom that someone wouldn't just throw a couple of tarps over the ruins to help preserve them in those old days.

<

Joel
01-16-2009, 04:31 PM
Well! Quite a bit of Santa Cruz County history popping up. Lovely old pictures of Calabazas. Hoping that the NPS will me call soon!

Froggy, where did you get that Camp Loco story from? I've been searching quite a few places for any information and found absolutely nothing. I struck out at the AHS.

Froggy
01-25-2009, 12:30 PM
Jole:
I’ve done a lot of research on the existence of and site of the Tumacacori Mission lost mines. La Virgen de Guadalupe; La Purisima Concepcion; La Opata’s Mine; and others :eek:

Vulture
01-25-2009, 01:13 PM
Jole:
I’ve done a lot of research on the existence of and site of the Tumacacori Mission lost mines. La Virgen de Guadalupe; La Purisima Concepcion; La Opata’s Mine; and others :eek:

Yes, and???

Vulture
01-25-2009, 01:30 PM
Around the turn of the century[1900], a black cowboy heard about the lost mines, and while wandering around the canyon, came upon the Cross in the Cliff, and the ruins of the original Mission.

Not known for certain, but another monument he may have seen was the face of Christ in a cliff. This is a man made monument. It was made to be viewed at a certain time of day, from a certain angle, at the right time of year. A combination of cut rocks and shadows form this monument that was meant to be seen from a distance. It is only one of several monuments in the area.

He spent a long time trying to find the lost mine of the Virgin de Guadalupe. He dug shafts all over the place. While he would dig, a Bighorn Sheep used to watch him from the cliffs above. The same sheep would watch every day. He started thinking that the spirit of one of the Jesuits was in the ram, watching him to make sure he didn't find the mine (we know this, because that's what he told the men who brought him supplies)! One day, he got flustered and shot the ram. He got more and more paranoid. So much so, that the men who brought him supplies, got worried, and one day, came to take him to a hospital to get help. When they got there, he pulled a knife and attacked them. They were forced to kill him in self-defense. From that day on, the location was known as Camp Loco.

Bravo Sierra...
<

bad bob
01-25-2009, 04:01 PM
Bravo Sierra...
<




Can you prove or disprove all this, or is it just more of your "opinion"?

Vulture
01-26-2009, 09:16 AM
Can you prove or disprove all this, or is it just more of your "opinion"?

Here's the pertinent passage & a link to the website.

I am very interested to know Froggy's source for that story.

http://www.foresthistory.org/Research/usfscoll/publications/region/3/tucker-fitzpatrick/chap19.htm

"Some of them have spent thousands and thousands of dollars there. One old camp is up off the side canyon coming into Peck Canyon. Mrs. Shipley operated there for several years. She got thousands of dollars put up by two or three profs from the University here and a doctor or two and others, and she was excavating there. She even had a machine gun set up at one time to guard this 'valuable treasure.' Two of the fellows that were her body guards are still in Nogales; one is a contractor and the other got to be deputy sheriff in Nogales. She sold a lot of stock in this venture. There was all sorts of digging there. In one place she had an inclined shaft. One of the old ranchers there told me that one of the workers she had one time was a wetback from across the line. He was down in this precarious shaft digging for the treasure that was supposed to be down there and it caved in on him and killed him. While no one knew particularly that he was a wetback from across the line, there was no better place to bury him, so he is still down in the shaft. It caved in and that's that. We called that Camp Loco. She hired a pack horse from this rancher, for several seasons. He ranted her a kind of an old sway-backed horse that wasn't much good for anything else. She would tell prospective bait that he had got sway-backed from carrying out silver bars. Finally she got hold of some stationery of the Treasurer of the United States and faked some correspondence on that—I don't know just what—'your shipment of bullion had been received and the approximate valuation was so much and the exact valuation would be sent to her shortly.' She passed this around and they picked her up on that charge—doing things she shouldn't have done. They sent her up but she came back after a while and went to operating again. She finally moved over to the Coast and committed suicide. That was the end of that. She was quite a gal."

<

bad bob
01-26-2009, 10:47 AM
Here's the pertinent passage & a link to the website.

I am very interested to know Froggy's source for that story.

http://www.foresthistory.org/Research/usfscoll/publications/region/3/tucker-fitzpatrick/chap19.htm

"Some of them have spent thousands and thousands of dollars there. One old camp is up off the side canyon coming into Peck Canyon. Mrs. Shipley operated there for several years. She got thousands of dollars put up by two or three profs from the University here and a doctor or two and others, and she was excavating there. She even had a machine gun set up at one time to guard this 'valuable treasure.' Two of the fellows that were her body guards are still in Nogales; one is a contractor and the other got to be deputy sheriff in Nogales. She sold a lot of stock in this venture. There was all sorts of digging there. In one place she had an inclined shaft. One of the old ranchers there told me that one of the workers she had one time was a wetback from across the line. He was down in this precarious shaft digging for the treasure that was supposed to be down there and it caved in on him and killed him. While no one knew particularly that he was a wetback from across the line, there was no better place to bury him, so he is still down in the shaft. It caved in and that's that. We called that Camp Loco. She hired a pack horse from this rancher, for several seasons. He ranted her a kind of an old sway-backed horse that wasn't much good for anything else. She would tell prospective bait that he had got sway-backed from carrying out silver bars. Finally she got hold of some stationery of the Treasurer of the United States and faked some correspondence on that—I don't know just what—'your shipment of bullion had been received and the approximate valuation was so much and the exact valuation would be sent to her shortly.' She passed this around and they picked her up on that charge—doing things she shouldn't have done. They sent her up but she came back after a while and went to operating again. She finally moved over to the Coast and committed suicide. That was the end of that. She was quite a gal."

<




EXCELLENT MR VULTURE! :)

I believe it would have been much better to produce this in the first place, and then given the poster (Froggy) a chance to reply if he's still around. The info he wrote did NOT appear to be made up, but it DID seem you were a bit unfair to this newbie for no apparent reason. :confused:
<Now depositing my 2cents in the slot....ka ching.....ka ching>

Vulture
01-26-2009, 01:19 PM
The info he wrote did NOT appear to be made up, but it DID seem you were a bit unfair to this newbie

Really bob?

A lost mission,

a lost mine,

a supernatural animal,

a mysterious landmark only discernable at certain lighting conditions,

madness, obsession, attempted murder, death...

maybe I was unfair to Froggy, but this has everything needed to make the next Indiana Jones movie. It just seemed a bit much.

(by the way, interested in a good deal on a bridge?)...

<

bad bob
01-26-2009, 01:58 PM
Really bob?

A lost mission,

a lost mine,

a supernatural animal,

a mysterious landmark only discernable at certain lighting conditions,

madness, obsession, attempted murder, death...

maybe I was unfair to Froggy, but this has everything needed to make the next Indiana Jones movie. It just seemed a bit much.

(by the way, interested in a good deal on a bridge?)...

<



Stranger things have happened, sir. Perhaps you're familiar with the Lost Dutchman Mine? There's also a natural cross on a Colorado mtn side that is barely discernable except when the snow fills the image.
http://www.peakware.com/photos.html?pk=108 (http://www.peakware.com/photos.html?pk=108)

As to the rest, I'm pretty sure there are similar examples. I just thought you might wanna cut a newbie some slack, in hopes of having him/her return. I believe it's already hard enough getting them out of the reading mode and into the posting mode.

You keep your bridge for now...I'll see if I can find someone interested. :D

teds280z
01-26-2009, 06:54 PM
Yea guys sometimes we are a little hard on the newbies. Just think they come to us after hearing the stories of lost mines and lost treasures. what is wrong with informing them of different ghost and mining towns. They may become one of our great explorers and find more places for us GT'ers to go to and enjoy our history. I know some of the newbies are a little weird but most "normal" people don't know the enjoyment we are able to experience. Just my opinion Ted:cool:

bad bob
01-26-2009, 07:57 PM
Yea guys sometimes we are a little hard on the newbies. Just think they come to us after hearing the stories of lost mines and lost treasures. what is wrong with informing them of different ghost and mining towns. They may become one of our great explorers and find more places for us GT'ers to go to and enjoy our history. I know some of the newbies are a little weird but most "normal" people don't know the enjoyment we are able to experience. Just my opinion Ted:cool:




Howdy Ted.....how ya doin'?

You know, personal finances have kept me off the GT trails for some time now. Then with this xtra crunch on the economy, I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it. That is, short of hittin' the lottery. And that'd be some trick, since I hardly ever play it.

That's why it's nice to log in here and see some of the great photos and the latest info from folks that have the funds to get out there.

Did you say you been out explorin' recently? That's why you been AWOL in here lately.... I seem to recall a msg titled "I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!"

teds280z
01-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Hey Bob, How ya been. No I was just missing from the site for a while not able to go GT hunting. I've got problems at work and next week I may be a statistic on the unemployment line. I pleaded my case today. Anyway I went to my daughters in Utah and stopped at Wells and Deeth, Nevada. I have some pics I am going to post tonight. Wells was the city hit by the earthquake earlier this year. Old town was hit hard. Deeth is in our GT list in Elko county, Wells to. Anyway good to hear from you. I am going to try with a new post now under current status of GTs:cool:

bad bob
01-27-2009, 07:39 PM
Hey Bob, How ya been. No I was just missing from the site for a while not able to go GT hunting. I've got problems at work and next week I may be a statistic on the unemployment line. I pleaded my case today. Anyway I went to my daughters in Utah and stopped at Wells and Deeth, Nevada. I have some pics I am going to post tonight. Wells was the city hit by the earthquake earlier this year. Old town was hit hard. Deeth is in our GT list in Elko county, Wells to. Anyway good to hear from you. I am going to try with a new post now under current status of GTs:cool:




Doin' ok for not having much $$$, Ted. Unemployed? Yikes! What do you do for work? I'm a house painter, and that's one thing that pretty much HAS to be done, regardless of the economy.

Landlords, and property owners do NOT like to splash paint, thank GOD. Cos I sure do. My rent increases every March based on the CPI (consumer price index). But I managed to snag a PT job as maintenance worker for a local family with 6-7 properties. Only 3 days a week, but enough to cover rent, and then some.

Good luck next week, and let me know what happens. I may have some "ideas" for you, if you get the pink slip. That is, unless you already got everything covered. :)

teds280z
01-28-2009, 06:00 PM
No Bob I have no Idea. I had the meeting yesterday and he said he would let me know in a week. **** I have been going through this since April. I don't know if I want him to hurry or not. I did send him an e-mail that if he decides the worst could I resign instead. 9 yrs may be blown out the window.:(

brian10x
01-30-2009, 06:05 AM
[quote=bad bob;37950]Howdy Ted.....how ya doin'?

You know, personal finances have kept me off the GT trails for some time now. Then with this xtra crunch on the economy, I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it. That is, short of hittin' the lottery. And that'd be some trick, since I hardly ever play it.

Not just me, eh?
These days I count myself as one of the fortunate ones that still have a somewhat stable (if low paying) job and able to meet most of my obligations on time.
I am thankful I can still participate in this hobby, albeit at a much reduced frequency.
I was toying with the idea of starting up a thread about how the current economy has curtailed GT activities, but then I decided it was just too depressing to talk about.

bad bob
01-30-2009, 09:06 AM
[quote=bad bob;37950]Howdy Ted.....how ya doin'?

You know, personal finances have kept me off the GT trails for some time now. Then with this xtra crunch on the economy, I don't know when I'll be able to get back to it. That is, short of hittin' the lottery. And that'd be some trick, since I hardly ever play it.

Not just me, eh?
These days I count myself as one of the fortunate ones that still have a somewhat stable (if low paying) job and able to meet most of my obligations on time.
I am thankful I can still participate in this hobby, albeit at a much reduced frequency.
I was toying with the idea of starting up a thread about how the current economy has curtailed GT activities, but then I decided it was just too depressing to talk about.




You're quite right. And Tucson is about 515 miles inland from here, which means you have much better access to AZ and surrounding states. Current fuel prices are at least reasonable, whereas a few months ago, at prices just under $5 per gallon, that pretty much brings a halt to all or most unnecessary activities. :(

brian10x
01-30-2009, 01:30 PM
[quote=brian10x;38026]




You're quite right. And Tucson is about 515 miles inland from here, which means you have much better access to AZ and surrounding states. Current fuel prices are at least reasonable, whereas a few months ago, at prices just under $5 per gallon, that pretty much brings a halt to all or most unnecessary activities. :(

As long as we (me included) accept "reasonable" prices, we are doomed.
Funny how the price of crude is at historic low prices, yet gasoline prices creep just a little higher every day.
Funny how high grocery prices were mostly blamed on fuel prices yet have remained nearly as high as fuel prices plummeted.
Funny how the magic grocery store "shrink ray" has given us smaller sizes for the same price.
And isn't it just a riot how the great new economic package designed to ease our financial burdens includes skateboard parks and global warming studies. Thats going to but food on the table.
Don't get me started. (Oh, well, too late for that)

teds280z
01-30-2009, 02:10 PM
:mad::mad:And not only that but I received my raise in December( imagine that HR wants to can me and still gives me a raise, go figure) and my check went down $200 everyheck. S*** I did better without the raise. I agree Brian they had to raise gas so high but are now doing just fine with the great rollback. Its all a scam to see what the American people will do about it. We almost had the CEOs with cutting back on driving, its just so many rich "PEOPLE" that they don't care about us. I think all politicians, billonares, Ceos, and the like should either be sent out and shot or make them survive as homeless people do for about 6 months with no help from mommy. See Brian you got me started.:mad::mad: Ted

brian10x
01-30-2009, 04:03 PM
Ted,
I wonder to myself all the time, just how far we can be pushed.
Where is the line that has to be crossed, or are we, as Americans so used to our lifestyles and FREEDOMS being slowly eroded away that all we care about are vague promises of HOPE and CHANGE and whats on tv tonight?
How bad does it have to get before we rise up and demand our country back?
Its like boiling a frog. How do you boil a frog? You don't throw him in boiling water. You gently place him in a pot of cool water and slowly turn up the heat.
Well, friends, the water is boiling and I want out!
You want a good example of the boiling frog? They say after all taxes and fees we keep approx. 30 cents out of every dollar we earn.
What if today we kept every cent, and on Monday they started taxing us at 70% ? There would be riots in the streets! But raise our taxes s l o w l y and take it from different places and we hardly raise an eyebrow.
I, for one, want my money. All of it.
Then we can start all over and try not to screw it up this time.
RANT OVER

teds280z
01-30-2009, 04:31 PM
I know you've got it but to many americans don't have the guts to stand up and say enough is enough. We need a 50 millionpeople or more to sign a petition saying just that.:mad:

speedy
02-01-2009, 06:42 AM
Unfortunately if we were able to start over again, and our tax system was again designed by politicians, it would still be screwed up. I'm not sure government does anything well except spend money..our money.....Speedy

Rupe
02-15-2009, 06:19 PM
Unfortunately if we were able to start over again, and our tax system was again designed by politicians, it would still be screwed up. I'm not sure government does anything well except spend money..our money.....Speedy


Man you got that right!
rupe