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Thread: Mogollon Trip this weekend

  1. #11
    bad bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravelrash View Post
    It's a terrible thing, being Irish.
    My first wake, with Uncles I'd never seen before (or since), proves what you say to be true Bob.
    Thus, beer became my weapon of choice at a youngish age.
    Things were not much better on my mothers side - they are Scots!
    I went there in 87, to the town of Tobermory, Island of Mull, where the G(5)grandfather came from and, with the help of local heritage people, located the old house.
    Glory be!!!! It's a Distillery!
    (G(5)GG was a smuggler who didn't pay taxes!)

    Tobermory is were 10's of thousands of Scots were hearded, after the "Clearances" and put on ships for Canada. Fascinating town history and it is drop dead gorgeous.
    My ancestor didn't get to go to Canada; he got to spend 2 years in a hulk on The Thames and then transportation to Oz.
    Bit of a win, there, Gramps!
    Here's to ya.


    Pretty interesting Pete, especially in view of the Braveheart movie being rerun. I guess "the clearances" were Scots being deported by the Irish centuries ago? Nice to know they can all live on one large island (UK) again.

    What's a hulk on the Thames? Like working on/off a river boat?

    Also do ya have any scenic photos of Tobermory? I'll Google it for some generic tourism pics too...

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad bob View Post
    Pretty interesting Pete, especially in view of the Braveheart movie being rerun. I guess "the clearances" were Scots being deported by the Irish centuries ago? Nice to know they can all live on one large island (UK) again.

    What's a hulk on the Thames? Like working on/off a river boat?

    Also do ya have any scenic photos of Tobermory? I'll Google it for some generic tourism pics too...
    Bob, no photos but GE has some nice shots, including the old house, the remnant front of which is now the Distillery Office/Tasting room. It is a very picturesque place, but home to "the lazy wind", so named because it would rather go through you than around you.

    Hulks were old, unseaworthy coal ships that the British Govt had seconded and moored in the Thames as holding bays for convicts. The same type of ship they gave Capt Cook to sail the world in, leading to the discovery of Oz.

    Horrific places, by all accounts. The death rate in them was horrendous. Some convicts were in these Thypus and Cholera hotbeds for upwards of 2 years before they set sail for Australia. History says you didn't want to be a female in one of them.

    The Clearances were a betrayal of the Scottish clansmen by their own "Lairds", in collusion with politicians and "big money" from England, that many Scots have yet to forgive or forget.
    There being a wee tad of history between the Scots and the Pommies ( ), a "solution" was arrived at. Politically, the English were ****-bent on dismantling the clan structures, as they knew that clanishness was a powerful motivating force against English dominion.
    In a nutshell, all old titles to land were to be rescinded and "everyone will have the chance to own their own land".

    Sounded good - had the backing of the clan chiefs.
    Except most Scots didn't have a pot to pee in, so come the auctions, landed "gentry" from south of Hadrians Wall were there in numbers and outbid everyone. Suddenly, no home, no clan, no fuedal system to protect
    Then the new landlords demanded evacuation of entire villages and all small holders - clearances. Apparently, the first such clearance happened in winter. Nice!
    This is the era of Rob Roy. I went to his old village and there's only vague outlines, laid out in overgrown stone, to suggest a street here, a house there. Very stark and haunting and there are dozens and dozens of places like it.

    This went on over quite a few years.
    The Scots were given the choice of migration to Canada or the cities of England and indenture etc, where life offered nothing, so Canada it was, for 100's of thousands.
    A huge, mile or so long dock was built in Tobermory where the "immigrant ships" were moored and as people were herded in, off they went to the brave new world.Of course, many ended up in Oz too, either as convicts or "free settlers".
    Not a happy chapter in a miserable few hundred years for the Scots! There's a great line in the movie "Trainspotting" about Scottish history....sums it up nicely.
    Still, it's not all bad. As we often say, we got surf, sun and sand and they got to stay in England!
    Just west of Mull is the island of Iona, where I was fortunate to live for 2 months, working on a restoration crew at the ancient Abbey. It dates from 363 AD and they refer to the extensions built in the 1100's, as "the new chapel"!!!!
    The real MacBeth is buried there, as are some 13 or so ancient Kings of Denmark. It was a favorite rape and pillage destination for Vikings!
    Mrs MacKenzie, who ran the post office/pub/general store at the ferry dock took a real shine to me, because she believed Australians hated the British almost as much as they did! I had a ball! Mrs Mac had 2 daughters!
    In that general air of hatred of the English, I met a lobster boat captain, as dry as an old stick and a story teller of the highest order. Over many beers he extolled the virtues of the modern English invasion (yuppies buying up land, old homes etc) and praised the way they had restored a lot of the Highland traditions.
    The punchline was that he meant things like poaching and smuggling! Memorable place and people....****** cold and wet though.
    "Those were great old days. Everthing is very quiet now, isn't it?" Elfego Baca

  3. #13
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    Ooops - double post
    "Those were great old days. Everthing is very quiet now, isn't it?" Elfego Baca

  4. #14
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    Fascinating UK history capsule Mr Pete...thanks fer that.

    You've been to at least 3 places (so far) that I'd really like to see. Thailand, the UK, and an ancient abbey, monestery or castle. And to be able to actually work on something like that is way beyond my outer limits.

    Hellion, I'd love to be able to work on a 19th century victorian house here in the US. But they don't let just anyone touch these fairly delicate relics.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad bob View Post
    Fascinating UK history capsule Mr Pete...thanks fer that.

    You've been to at least 3 places (so far) that I'd really like to see. Thailand, the UK, and an ancient abbey, monestery or castle. And to be able to actually work on something like that is way beyond my outer limits.

    Hellion, I'd love to be able to work on a 19th century victorian house here in the US. But they don't let just anyone touch these fairly delicate relics.
    No worries, Bob. Of course, the whole "5 minute encapsulation" gig is fraught with subjectiveness..... I can hear my Dad in every word! Which means any and all inaccuracies are his!!! LOL
    Old fella would be proud of his son, I reckon! Dad was quite a good historian.

    20 years later the opportunities I had on Iona still stand out as lifetime highlights. The entire island is (from memory) about 3 miles long and 1.5 wide but it would take many, many years to take in all the history and hear all the stories. I was very fortunate, that's for sure.

    Not to show off, but...... I left Iona and went to Germany and joined another restoration crew, turning a 500 year old, 6 storey high Flour Mill, complete with 3 storey, fully-functioning water wheel, into the techno-age headquarters of a world-wide shipping company. That was also quite a thrill also, but I only stayed 2 months there....Germans are every bit as rigid as they are portrayed!

    However, nothing quite compares with Thailand. That'll keep for a few camp-fire evenings. But let me assure you, Thailand is "absolute elsewhere" on speed.
    Kinda like Bakersfield.
    "Those were great old days. Everthing is very quiet now, isn't it?" Elfego Baca

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    We just barely missed each other. I made a whirlwind tour of SW NM and snapped a few shots along the way. In another thread I saw your videos, thanks for sharing them.

    -Josh

  7. #17
    tuutuutango Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad bob View Post
    Fascinating UK history capsule Mr Pete...thanks fer that.

    You've been to at least 3 places (so far) that I'd really like to see. Thailand, the UK, and an ancient abbey, monestery or castle. And to be able to actually work on something like that is way beyond my outer limits.

    Hellion, I'd love to be able to work on a 19th century victorian house here in the US. But they don't let just anyone touch these fairly delicate relics.
    Hey, speaking of ancient abbeys... I celebrated my 25th wedding anniversary (Christmas Eve) last month in Westminster Abbey in London... WOW. To attend church services in the same place where Issac Newton (and many others) are buried...

    The Abbey at Windsor Castle (where Prince Charles married Camile) here is where the Queen Mother is buried, Henry the 8th... list gose on.

    Talk about GHOSTS... The Abbeys really gave me a sense of stepping back into time, the same appeal (nearly) as visiting historic Ghost Towns here in the USA.

  8. #18
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    25 years? Heck, you get less for murder!
    All (bad and stale) jokes aside, I agree with you about those ancient British Isle sites, TuuTuuTango. When the mist was down and the light was dim, it wasn't hard to let the imagination run riot. The place just reeks of history, doesn't it?

    So, I take it you've been galivanting? Lucky bugger - some of us have to work.
    "Those were great old days. Everthing is very quiet now, isn't it?" Elfego Baca

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gravelrash View Post
    25 years? Heck, you get less for murder!
    All (bad and stale) jokes aside, I agree with you about those ancient British Isle sites, TuuTuuTango. When the mist was down and the light was dim, it wasn't hard to let the imagination run riot. The place just reeks of history, doesn't it?

    So, I take it you've been galivanting? Lucky bugger - some of us have to work.
    You simply can't imagine a better "Ghost Town" than something like an old Abbey in the UK... And to stand in the room where Mary Queen of Scots gave birth to James ll is incredible... The old history of where many of us (Austrailians, Americans, Canadians) can trace oiur roots --- blows away what we have in our own respective countries... however, nothing can compare to what we have here in the USA concerning our very unique Ghost Towns...

    I'm about to galivant off to Death Valley next week and look forward to visiting Scotty's Castle for my third time...

  10. #20
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    Well....done gallivantin yet? Post, man, post!
    "Those were great old days. Everthing is very quiet now, isn't it?" Elfego Baca

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