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Thread: TWO MINE EXPLORERS MISSING

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    Default TWO MINE EXPLORERS MISSING

    Originally posted by Cat and Ripley

    : Search continues for missing brothers in Silverado Canyon
    : Specially trained cave divers to join rescue effort.

    : June 24, 2002

    : By JOHN McDONALD
    : The Orange County Register

    :
    : A rescue effort is underway for two brothers who were last seen Sunday afternoon
    : swimming in a flooded mine shaft in a remote area of Silverado Canyon, the
    : Orange County Sheriff Department reported.

    : The two brothers, ages 18 and 23, and a third person had entered the mine
    : off Pine Canyon Trail at about 3 p.m. said Sheriff's Lt. Colin. Murphy.
    : The trio found their way blocked by water about 100 feet inside the cave.
    : The two brothers, who were not identified, dove into the water in hopes
    : that they could swim past the flooded portion, he said.

    : The third member of the trio waited about two hours for his friends before
    : hiking down to call police. Sheriff's deputies, aided by a helicopter equipped
    : with special equipment for detecting people in the dark, were dispatched
    : and searched the area to see if the pair had exited the cave another way
    : or after their friend left. The searchers found no sign of the brothers.

    :
    : Lt. Murphy said that a team of divers from Los Angeles, trained in cave
    : diving, is expected to arrive at the police command post early this morning.
    : The team and their equipment will be helicoptered to the mouth of the mine,
    : he said.

    : Cave diving is a specialized form of diving, Lt. Murphy said. There is no
    : light and it is easy to become disoriented. Deputies hope that the brothers
    : have found an air pocket in the mine so that they can be rescued, he added.


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    Default Re: TWO MINE EXPLORERS MISSING

    Originally posted by Dezdan

    : Thanks for posting that Cat. The Silverado Silver Mine and other surrounding mines are very dangerous as over the years mother nature has not been to nice to them. Even 50 years ago these mines were very dangerous as described in an article titled, "Lost Below" which appeared in the December 2001 issue of ICMJ. The article now resides on its authors website and can be read at: http://www.gouldeng.com/lost.htm
    :
    : ~Dezdan


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    Default One more thing...

    Originally posted by Dezdan

    : I forgot to add that events like this give us safety orientated explorers a bad name and rep...

    : ~Dezdan


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    Default MISSING BOYS FOUND

    Originally posted by Cat and Ripley

    : This is so sad, and so easily avoided!

    : Diver finds bodies of missing brothers
    : Pair had gone exploring in flooded mine shaft in Silverado Canyon.

    : June 24, 2002

    : By JOHN McDONALD and ERIC CARPENTER
    : The Orange County Register

    :
    :

    :
    : --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    :

    : A diver has found the bodies of two brothers who disappeared Sunday
    : afternoon
    : in a flooded mine shaft in Silverado Canyon, the Orange County
    : Sheriff's
    : Department reported.

    : A specially trained cave diver from the Los Angeles Sheriff's
    : Department
    : searched the abandoned mine shaft for the men.

    : The two brothers, Nicholas Anderson, 23, and Glenn Anderson, 18, both
    : of
    : Tustin, and a third person had entered the mine off Pine Canyon Trail
    : at
    : about 3 p.m. Sunday, said Sheriff's Lt. Colin Murphy. The trio found
    : their
    : way blocked by water about 100 feet inside the cave. The two brothers
    : are
    : experienced cave explorers who surf and play water polo. They dove into
    : the water in hopes that they could swim past the flooded portion, he
    : said.

    :
    : The third member of the trio waited about two hours for his friends
    : before
    : hiking down to call police. Sheriff's deputies, aided by a helicopter
    : equipped
    : with special gear for detecting people in the dark, were dispatched and
    : searched the area to see if the pair had exited the cave another way or
    : after their friend left. The searchers found no sign of the brothers.

    : "It is really hard," said Terry Kling, the mother of the two brothers.
    : She
    : was surrounded by relatives and friends at the Orange County Sheriff's
    : command
    : center at the end of Silverado Canyon Road. "If they get out of this I
    : want
    : to wring their necks and then never let them out of my sight again."

    : Cave diving is a specialized form of diving, Lt. Murphy said. There is
    : no
    : light and it is easy to become disoriented. Deputies had hoped that the
    : brothers found an air pocket in the mine so that they could be rescued,
    : he added.

    : There are about 10 abandoned silver and tin mines in the area. Orange
    : County
    : Sheriff's officials said the mines are not closed off to the public but
    : are dangerous.


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    Default You're right!

    Originally posted by Cat Ripley

    : Dan, Your right! And anyone that knows anything about mine exploring knows that you dont try to swim past a flooded area in a mine, thats just plain idiotic!

    : : I forgot to add that events like this give us safety orientated explorers a bad name and rep...

    : : ~Dezdan


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    Default Why folks, why???

    Originally posted by Dezdan

    : Sad to here it ended this way, but it does not have to? So far this year 11 (now 13) people have lost their lives in/around Abandoned mines. People need to learn that without the proper gear or knowledge and understanding of the mines, mining methods, and unseen hazards around mines that it is just to **** dangerous to enter a mine! Please folks, STAY OUT AND STAY ALIVE!!!!! The underground environment seldom forgives! To learn more about mine safety and how to not become a statistic please visit:
    : http://www.msha.gov/PLACES/PLACESHP.HTM
    :
    : ~Dezdan


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    Default Re: You're right!

    Originally posted by Cactusman

    : : Dan, Your right! And anyone that knows anything about mine exploring knows that you donít try to swim past a flooded area in a mine, thatís just plain idiotic!

    : : : I forgot to add that events like this give us safety orientated explorers a bad name and rep...

    : : : ~Dezdan

    : Hello Folks! Its great to be back!

    : I had not heard about the cave diving accident until I read it here. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of the boys who died.

    : Personally, I think idiotic is a harsh term to use considering the youth of the boys involved. The problem here was a lack of education and planning that, combined with a youthful lack of wisdom, resulted in a terrible loss.

    : As some people here know, I have been exploring underground for over 3 decades. There is nothing wrong with it when done with proper preparation. As to cave diving, Had these boys been TRAINED cave divers, the hazards of the mine may well have been manageable. Although I am a diver, I am not a cave diver and find it unlikely that I would venture into an underwater aquatic environment without considerably more training.

    : Without getting back into my old speech about safety, PLEASE be careful while exploring. It matters little if you are in an old mill, walking across an old town, or venturing into the vast unknown of the subterranean world. They all have hazards that need to be respected.


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    Default I live in Silverado

    Originally posted by Karl Kasarda

    : Well, there is more to this than even meets the eye. I was up on the path to the Blue light mine this morning with some locals, and to even GET to the mine they crossed private property and jumped a No Trespassing fence/sign. The media is whooping it up with their typical save the world mentality. A LOT of locals goto this mine. A LOT of them have been all through the mine. It is part of our heritage!

    : My sympathies for the family and loved ones, may they somehow find some peace soon in this tragic loss - but I beg you, please do not make more loss from this. Please don't take away a part of the majesty of our canyons.

    : http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/letters/la-le-kasarda29.1jun29.story?coll=la%2Dnews%2Dcomment%2D letters

    : http://ocregister.com/news/deadlymine00626cci4.shtml


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    Default Re: I live in Silverado

    Originally posted by Dezdan

    : Karl,

    : Thank you for informing us that the boys had to cross private property and hop a fence to get to the mine. The media has not said a word about that, they are making it seem like the boys walked out of the local convince store and just walked in.

    : Yes indeed mines are apart of our heritage! I was arguing that very fact on another message board where folks want to have "legislatures do something to seal up, blow up" mines. When people talk about sealing-up or blowing-up a mine, I really take that hard. When you blow up or seal a mine you are closing off and destroying history, history in which I love and research. In my book it would be similar to defacing Petroglyphs!!! The key is education not destruction! People need to learn about the hazards they face when they enter abandoned mines as these two young adults did. People need to learn that without the proper gear or knowledge and understanding of the mines, mining methods, and unseen hazards around mines that it is just to **** dangerous to enter a mine!

    : We are losing mines at an alarmingly high rate these days. Every time I turn around I hear of another SoCal mine that has been sealed up and cleaned of historic 'trash'. If this trend continues, the only way our great/grandchildren will know what a mine is, is by visiting a museum or reading about them in books. We must keep incidents such as this last weeks from happing again or we will soon be mineless!

    : ~Dezdan


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    Default Re: You're right!

    Originally posted by Cat and Ripley

    : I agree that idiotic may be a harsh term and I understand your point, it really was more of a lack of knowledge on the boys part. However, one of the VERY first things I learned was that one doesnt go into a flooded mine, let alone swim past or under (as in this case) an obstruction! Thats just flat out stupid! And according to the newspaper and television reports the mother of the two boys states that not only did she know the boys were going to that mine that day but the boys were also experience "cave" explorers. Even the boy with them says that he warned the brothers not to swim under the obstruction, that it wasnt safe!
    : And now we find out that these boys crossed posted private property and scaled a fence to get to this mine. Its quite obvious that even if this mine had been gated or posted with UNSAFE MINE signs that they still would have found a way in, despite the warnings.
    : Idiotic might be a harsh term but it seems to be appropriate in this case.

    :
    : : Hello Folks! Its great to be back!

    : : I had not heard about the cave diving accident until I read it here. My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of the boys who died.

    : : Personally, I think idiotic is a harsh term to use considering the youth of the boys involved. The problem here was a lack of education and planning that, combined with a youthful lack of wisdom, resulted in a terrible loss.

    : : As some people here know, I have been exploring underground for over 3 decades. There is nothing wrong with it when done with proper preparation. As to cave diving, Had these boys been TRAINED cave divers, the hazards of the mine may well have been manageable. Although I am a diver, I am not a cave diver and find it unlikely that I would venture into an underwater aquatic environment without considerably more training.

    : : Without getting back into my old speech about safety, PLEASE be careful while exploring. It matters little if you are in an old mill, walking across an old town, or venturing into the vast unknown of the subterranean world. They all have hazards that need to be respected.


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